Proposal TAG Sustainability


Max Koerbaecher <max@...>
 

Dear TOC,

we would like to propose you a new TAG. 

Sustainability is a growing and important topic and can be done effectively only if everyone delivers their part to it. The data centers' global energy consumption, and therefore the reason for CO2 emission, is around 2%. That maybe doesn't sound a lot but is equivalent to Canada or Germany, and is also bigger than the emissions caused by airplanes. 

At the same time, open source gets relevant momentum and can be found in many system implementations or is the foundation modern systems are built on. That's why we would like to propose you the TAG Sustainability. We as a community can lay the foundation for sustainable software, sustainable open source projects and best practices to deliver our part for a positive change in the future.

Please find our proposal here:

We would be more than happy to discuss this with you in the next TOC about the TAG. By questions feel free to reach out to us.

Best regards
Max


Wojtek Cichoń
 

Great initiative! I would love to get involved.
Best regards,
W.

On Sat Mar 19, 2022, 12:06 PM GMT, Max Koerbaecher wrote:
Dear TOC,

we would like to propose you a new TAG. 

Sustainability is a growing and important topic and can be done effectively only if everyone delivers their part to it. The data centers' global energy consumption, and therefore the reason for CO2 emission, is around 2%. That maybe doesn't sound a lot but is equivalent to Canada or Germany, and is also bigger than the emissions caused by airplanes. 

At the same time, open source gets relevant momentum and can be found in many system implementations or is the foundation modern systems are built on. That's why we would like to propose you the TAG Sustainability. We as a community can lay the foundation for sustainable software, sustainable open source projects and best practices to deliver our part for a positive change in the future.

Please find our proposal here:

We would be more than happy to discuss this with you in the next TOC about the TAG. By questions feel free to reach out to us.

Best regards
Max


Chris Short
 

Oh cool!
He/Him/His
TZ=America/Detroit


On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 9:49 AM Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:
Dear TOC,

we would like to propose you a new TAG. 

Sustainability is a growing and important topic and can be done effectively only if everyone delivers their part to it. The data centers' global energy consumption, and therefore the reason for CO2 emission, is around 2%. That maybe doesn't sound a lot but is equivalent to Canada or Germany, and is also bigger than the emissions caused by airplanes. 

At the same time, open source gets relevant momentum and can be found in many system implementations or is the foundation modern systems are built on. That's why we would like to propose you the TAG Sustainability. We as a community can lay the foundation for sustainable software, sustainable open source projects and best practices to deliver our part for a positive change in the future.

Please find our proposal here:

We would be more than happy to discuss this with you in the next TOC about the TAG. By questions feel free to reach out to us.

Best regards
Max


Bob Killen
 

I applaud the effort, but if this is contributor focused, would it make more sense to be a working group under TAG Contributor Strategy? or potentially an independent working group? - "The end result of a working group may be a new project proposal, landscape, whitepaper or even a report detailing their findings. The intention of working groups is not to host a full project or specification[1]".

I would also recommend a potentially different name than sustainability or expand it to something like environmental-sustainability. I know it aligns with the effort, but in OSS, "sustainability" is associated much more with contributor or project health than environmental/economic impact. I could see significant confusion otherwise =/

Cheers,
- Bob


On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 5:55 AM Chris Short via lists.cncf.io <chris=chrisshort.net@...> wrote:
Oh cool!
He/Him/His
TZ=America/Detroit


On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 9:49 AM Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:
Dear TOC,

we would like to propose you a new TAG. 

Sustainability is a growing and important topic and can be done effectively only if everyone delivers their part to it. The data centers' global energy consumption, and therefore the reason for CO2 emission, is around 2%. That maybe doesn't sound a lot but is equivalent to Canada or Germany, and is also bigger than the emissions caused by airplanes. 

At the same time, open source gets relevant momentum and can be found in many system implementations or is the foundation modern systems are built on. That's why we would like to propose you the TAG Sustainability. We as a community can lay the foundation for sustainable software, sustainable open source projects and best practices to deliver our part for a positive change in the future.

Please find our proposal here:

We would be more than happy to discuss this with you in the next TOC about the TAG. By questions feel free to reach out to us.

Best regards
Max


Wojtek Cichoń
 

+1 for change to for example "Climate sustainability"?

Re: Contributor-focused. I think this goes a lot further than just contributing code. First, we need to raise awareness of the issue and make sure that the outcomes of the TAG overlap with the product and business goals, so a lot of internal/external comms will be involved.
All the best!


Max Koerbaecher <max@...>
 

Thank you Bob!
We discussed the wording for some time and wanted to keep it simple. However, I believe we can find the right prefix for it.

But, I have to disagree that sustainability, as a concept, has something to do with the TAG Contributor Strategy. I know it is written as the statement for the TAG, but I understand it as just for its word, and could be replaced with "we want to sponsor a long-lasting relationship with our contributors". On the other hand, throwing sustainability and ICT, cloud, computing, software into a search engine, will point you always to topics of energy consumption, computing effectiveness, and CO2 outputs.  

I believe this could start as a WG. But "Sustainability" scratches on a huge variety of topics that could be broken down into different WG. 

Am Di., 22. März 2022 um 14:14 Uhr schrieb Bob Killen <killen.bob@...>:

I applaud the effort, but if this is contributor focused, would it make more sense to be a working group under TAG Contributor Strategy? or potentially an independent working group? - "The end result of a working group may be a new project proposal, landscape, whitepaper or even a report detailing their findings. The intention of working groups is not to host a full project or specification[1]".

I would also recommend a potentially different name than sustainability or expand it to something like environmental-sustainability. I know it aligns with the effort, but in OSS, "sustainability" is associated much more with contributor or project health than environmental/economic impact. I could see significant confusion otherwise =/

Cheers,
- Bob


On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 5:55 AM Chris Short via lists.cncf.io <chris=chrisshort.net@...> wrote:
Oh cool!
He/Him/His
TZ=America/Detroit


On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 9:49 AM Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:
Dear TOC,

we would like to propose you a new TAG. 

Sustainability is a growing and important topic and can be done effectively only if everyone delivers their part to it. The data centers' global energy consumption, and therefore the reason for CO2 emission, is around 2%. That maybe doesn't sound a lot but is equivalent to Canada or Germany, and is also bigger than the emissions caused by airplanes. 

At the same time, open source gets relevant momentum and can be found in many system implementations or is the foundation modern systems are built on. That's why we would like to propose you the TAG Sustainability. We as a community can lay the foundation for sustainable software, sustainable open source projects and best practices to deliver our part for a positive change in the future.

Please find our proposal here:

We would be more than happy to discuss this with you in the next TOC about the TAG. By questions feel free to reach out to us.

Best regards
Max


Josh Berkus
 

On 3/22/22 06:14, Bob Killen wrote:
I would also recommend a potentially different name than sustainability or expand it to something like environmental-sustainability. I know it aligns with the effort, but in OSS, "sustainability" is associated much more with contributor or project health than environmental/economic impact. I could see significant confusion otherwise =/
Given that this proposal has to do with environmental sustainability, I don't see a place for it in Contributor Strategy.

I agree that the name should be workshopped to avoid that confusion in the future.

--
-- Josh Berkus
TAG Contributor Strategy Co-Chair


Ricardo Aravena
 


It's a great initiative.

It would be good to understand if there are any projects that would fall in the scope of the proposed TAG.  I also wonder if those types of projects have an overlap with FinOps.

The part that deals with creating standards and guidelines for the reduction of the CO₂ footprint of the projects and data centers appears more like a working group to me. 

Additionally, to echo Bob's comment, the use of the 'sustainability' term is a bit confusing. Is it related to long term sustainability of the project itself?  Or is it related to sustainability of data centers and reducing the CO₂ footprint?

My two cents.

Thanks,
Ricardo


On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 12:31 PM Josh Berkus <jberkus@...> wrote:
On 3/22/22 06:14, Bob Killen wrote:
> I would also recommend a potentially different name than sustainability
> or expand it to something like environmental-sustainability. I know it
> aligns with the effort, but in OSS, "sustainability" is associated much
> more with contributor or project health than environmental/economic
> impact. I could see significant confusion otherwise =/

Given that this proposal has to do with environmental sustainability, I
don't see a place for it in Contributor Strategy.

I agree that the name should be workshopped to avoid that confusion in
the future.

--
-- Josh Berkus
    TAG Contributor Strategy Co-Chair







Jaime Magiera
 

I’d be interested in contributing to this TAG, whatever the name will be. 

Jaime Magiera
DevOps Engineer Senior
ICPSR

"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea." 
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

On Mar 19, 2022, at 8:06 AM, Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:

Dear TOC,

we would like to propose you a new TAG. 

Sustainability is a growing and important topic and can be done effectively only if everyone delivers their part to it. The data centers' global energy consumption, and therefore the reason for CO2 emission, is around 2%. That maybe doesn't sound a lot but is equivalent to Canada or Germany, and is also bigger than the emissions caused by airplanes. 

At the same time, open source gets relevant momentum and can be found in many system implementations or is the foundation modern systems are built on. That's why we would like to propose you the TAG Sustainability. We as a community can lay the foundation for sustainable software, sustainable open source projects and best practices to deliver our part for a positive change in the future.

Please find our proposal here:

We would be more than happy to discuss this with you in the next TOC about the TAG. By questions feel free to reach out to us.

Best regards
Max


Max Koerbaecher <max@...>
 

Hello all,

thank you for having me at the TOC meeting yesterday and for the chance as well as the discussion on our proposal.
As a result of yesterday's discussion I first would like to put a renaming into the room:
"Environmental Conservation WG"

Following the recommendation, we would start as a working group also we see that there are a lot of jobs to be done, to oversight any project is at this time not part of it/too early and therefore not suitable for a TAG. Might change in the future.

Some of the initial task I see:
  • craft a team for the WG (I got already a couple of private messages and notes of interest)
  • scoping the activities - as mentioned in the meeting we see many dimensions, possibilities and ways of acting. an output here can be a kind of roadmap as well as a cloud native environmental impact map (work in this direction is generally done and need some CN spicing)
  • depending on the size of the team as well as the scoped activities, I would like to have the WG being active actually in to three directions
  • 1. towards the CNCF projects - did they worked already on something for improving their environment footprint? what are the problems they see? what is needed to overcome potential issues? etc.
  • 2. towards the enduser - as mentioned a key for this topic is awareness, and the our enduser are one/some of the strongest multiplicators. What are their current state? How OSS can help? Can we include this topic to the CNCF survey?
  • 3. bridging existing foundations and project - there are many initiatives out there, how we can bring them to our community? where we have a common sense? what is difficult for them to grow adoption? Lets learn from each other and be a vehicle for existing implementations/researches etc.
Sorry for the long email. I'm looking forward to your feedback, and your guidance to get the things started :)

Best
Max



Am Fr., 25. März 2022 um 01:33 Uhr schrieb Jaime Magiera <jaimelm@...>:

I’d be interested in contributing to this TAG, whatever the name will be. 

Jaime Magiera
DevOps Engineer Senior
ICPSR

"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea." 
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

On Mar 19, 2022, at 8:06 AM, Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:

Dear TOC,

we would like to propose you a new TAG. 

Sustainability is a growing and important topic and can be done effectively only if everyone delivers their part to it. The data centers' global energy consumption, and therefore the reason for CO2 emission, is around 2%. That maybe doesn't sound a lot but is equivalent to Canada or Germany, and is also bigger than the emissions caused by airplanes. 

At the same time, open source gets relevant momentum and can be found in many system implementations or is the foundation modern systems are built on. That's why we would like to propose you the TAG Sustainability. We as a community can lay the foundation for sustainable software, sustainable open source projects and best practices to deliver our part for a positive change in the future.

Please find our proposal here:

We would be more than happy to discuss this with you in the next TOC about the TAG. By questions feel free to reach out to us.

Best regards
Max


Davanum Srinivas
 

Max,

+1 to "Environmental Conservation WG" as the name and the initial tasks.

-- Dims


On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 2:01 PM Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:
Hello all,

thank you for having me at the TOC meeting yesterday and for the chance as well as the discussion on our proposal.
As a result of yesterday's discussion I first would like to put a renaming into the room:
"Environmental Conservation WG"

Following the recommendation, we would start as a working group also we see that there are a lot of jobs to be done, to oversight any project is at this time not part of it/too early and therefore not suitable for a TAG. Might change in the future.

Some of the initial task I see:
  • craft a team for the WG (I got already a couple of private messages and notes of interest)
  • scoping the activities - as mentioned in the meeting we see many dimensions, possibilities and ways of acting. an output here can be a kind of roadmap as well as a cloud native environmental impact map (work in this direction is generally done and need some CN spicing)
  • depending on the size of the team as well as the scoped activities, I would like to have the WG being active actually in to three directions
  • 1. towards the CNCF projects - did they worked already on something for improving their environment footprint? what are the problems they see? what is needed to overcome potential issues? etc.
  • 2. towards the enduser - as mentioned a key for this topic is awareness, and the our enduser are one/some of the strongest multiplicators. What are their current state? How OSS can help? Can we include this topic to the CNCF survey?
  • 3. bridging existing foundations and project - there are many initiatives out there, how we can bring them to our community? where we have a common sense? what is difficult for them to grow adoption? Lets learn from each other and be a vehicle for existing implementations/researches etc.
Sorry for the long email. I'm looking forward to your feedback, and your guidance to get the things started :)

Best
Max



Am Fr., 25. März 2022 um 01:33 Uhr schrieb Jaime Magiera <jaimelm@...>:
I’d be interested in contributing to this TAG, whatever the name will be. 

Jaime Magiera
DevOps Engineer Senior
ICPSR

"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea." 
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

On Mar 19, 2022, at 8:06 AM, Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:

Dear TOC,

we would like to propose you a new TAG. 

Sustainability is a growing and important topic and can be done effectively only if everyone delivers their part to it. The data centers' global energy consumption, and therefore the reason for CO2 emission, is around 2%. That maybe doesn't sound a lot but is equivalent to Canada or Germany, and is also bigger than the emissions caused by airplanes. 

At the same time, open source gets relevant momentum and can be found in many system implementations or is the foundation modern systems are built on. That's why we would like to propose you the TAG Sustainability. We as a community can lay the foundation for sustainable software, sustainable open source projects and best practices to deliver our part for a positive change in the future.

Please find our proposal here:

We would be more than happy to discuss this with you in the next TOC about the TAG. By questions feel free to reach out to us.

Best regards
Max



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Wojtek Cichoń
 

Sounds great! I'm in! Where do I sign? 😉

In terms of the next steps - I assume that we have to split who does what and we could start by brainstorming ideas on how to answer the questions posed in your 1-3 points (surveys? outreach? etc.)

I thought that if you will be joining KubeCon EU in May we might try to arrange a meeting just to get to know each other. WDYT?
Before that happens, catching up once a month or two weeks would be good.

All the best!
Wojtek Cichoń
Founding Marketing Manager


On Wed Apr 6, 2022, 06:04 PM GMT, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
Max,

+1 to "Environmental Conservation WG" as the name and the initial tasks.

-- Dims

On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 2:01 PM Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:
Hello all,

thank you for having me at the TOC meeting yesterday and for the chance as well as the discussion on our proposal.
As a result of yesterday's discussion I first would like to put a renaming into the room:
"Environmental Conservation WG"

Following the recommendation, we would start as a working group also we see that there are a lot of jobs to be done, to oversight any project is at this time not part of it/too early and therefore not suitable for a TAG. Might change in the future.

Some of the initial task I see:
  • craft a team for the WG (I got already a couple of private messages and notes of interest)
  • scoping the activities - as mentioned in the meeting we see many dimensions, possibilities and ways of acting. an output here can be a kind of roadmap as well as a cloud native environmental impact map (work in this direction is generally done and need some CN spicing)
  • depending on the size of the team as well as the scoped activities, I would like to have the WG being active actually in to three directions
  • 1. towards the CNCF projects - did they worked already on something for improving their environment footprint? what are the problems they see? what is needed to overcome potential issues? etc.
  • 2. towards the enduser - as mentioned a key for this topic is awareness, and the our enduser are one/some of the strongest multiplicators. What are their current state? How OSS can help? Can we include this topic to the CNCF survey?
  • 3. bridging existing foundations and project - there are many initiatives out there, how we can bring them to our community? where we have a common sense? what is difficult for them to grow adoption? Lets learn from each other and be a vehicle for existing implementations/researches etc.
Sorry for the long email. I'm looking forward to your feedback, and your guidance to get the things started :)

Best
Max



Am Fr., 25. März 2022 um 01:33 Uhr schrieb Jaime Magiera <jaimelm@...>:
I’d be interested in contributing to this TAG, whatever the name will be. 

Jaime Magiera
DevOps Engineer Senior
ICPSR

"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea." 
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

On Mar 19, 2022, at 8:06 AM, Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:

Dear TOC,

we would like to propose you a new TAG. 

Sustainability is a growing and important topic and can be done effectively only if everyone delivers their part to it. The data centers' global energy consumption, and therefore the reason for CO2 emission, is around 2%. That maybe doesn't sound a lot but is equivalent to Canada or Germany, and is also bigger than the emissions caused by airplanes. 

At the same time, open source gets relevant momentum and can be found in many system implementations or is the foundation modern systems are built on. That's why we would like to propose you the TAG Sustainability. We as a community can lay the foundation for sustainable software, sustainable open source projects and best practices to deliver our part for a positive change in the future.

Please find our proposal here:

We would be more than happy to discuss this with you in the next TOC about the TAG. By questions feel free to reach out to us.

Best regards
Max



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Chris Lloyd
 

Hi folks,
This is my first ever CNCF email, as a newbie - and I wanted to clarify how this works regarding another Linux Foundation project, the Green Software Foundation: Green Software Foundation | GSF

I can see some folks have raised a similar question - some of the items in the vision and responsibilities are clearly different from the GSF, but some overlap.

That might be ok, but flagging now. 

Thanks,
Chris.

Chris Lloyd-Jones | Head of Open Technologies, Office of the CTO 

Calendar booking link 

[ Upcoming OOF – 7 April, 19-20 April, 2-9 May. ]



From: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of Wojtek Cichoń via lists.cncf.io <wojtek=akuity.io@...>
Sent: 07 April 2022 12:17
To: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...>; Max Koerbaecher <max@...>; Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...>
Subject: [External] Re: [cncf-toc] Proposal TAG Sustainability
 
You don't often get email from wojtek=akuity.io@.... Learn why this is important
Sounds great! I'm in! Where do I sign? 😉

In terms of the next steps - I assume that we have to split who does what and we could start by brainstorming ideas on how to answer the questions posed in your 1-3 points (surveys? outreach? etc.)

I thought that if you will be joining KubeCon EU in May we might try to arrange a meeting just to get to know each other. WDYT?
Before that happens, catching up once a month or two weeks would be good.

All the best!
Wojtek Cichoń
Founding Marketing Manager


On Wed Apr 6, 2022, 06:04 PM GMT, Davanum Srinivas wrote:

Max,

+1 to "Environmental Conservation WG" as the name and the initial tasks.

-- Dims

On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 2:01 PM Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:
Hello all,

thank you for having me at the TOC meeting yesterday and for the chance as well as the discussion on our proposal.
As a result of yesterday's discussion I first would like to put a renaming into the room:
"Environmental Conservation WG"

Following the recommendation, we would start as a working group also we see that there are a lot of jobs to be done, to oversight any project is at this time not part of it/too early and therefore not suitable for a TAG. Might change in the future.

Some of the initial task I see:
  • craft a team for the WG (I got already a couple of private messages and notes of interest)
  • scoping the activities - as mentioned in the meeting we see many dimensions, possibilities and ways of acting. an output here can be a kind of roadmap as well as a cloud native environmental impact map (work in this direction is generally done and need some CN spicing)
  • depending on the size of the team as well as the scoped activities, I would like to have the WG being active actually in to three directions
  • 1. towards the CNCF projects - did they worked already on something for improving their environment footprint? what are the problems they see? what is needed to overcome potential issues? etc.
  • 2. towards the enduser - as mentioned a key for this topic is awareness, and the our enduser are one/some of the strongest multiplicators. What are their current state? How OSS can help? Can we include this topic to the CNCF survey?
  • 3. bridging existing foundations and project - there are many initiatives out there, how we can bring them to our community? where we have a common sense? what is difficult for them to grow adoption? Lets learn from each other and be a vehicle for existing implementations/researches etc.
Sorry for the long email. I'm looking forward to your feedback, and your guidance to get the things started :)

Best
Max



Am Fr., 25. März 2022 um 01:33 Uhr schrieb Jaime Magiera <jaimelm@...>:
I’d be interested in contributing to this TAG, whatever the name will be. 

Jaime Magiera
DevOps Engineer Senior
ICPSR

"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea." 
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

On Mar 19, 2022, at 8:06 AM, Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:

Dear TOC,

we would like to propose you a new TAG. 

Sustainability is a growing and important topic and can be done effectively only if everyone delivers their part to it. The data centers' global energy consumption, and therefore the reason for CO2 emission, is around 2%. That maybe doesn't sound a lot but is equivalent to Canada or Germany, and is also bigger than the emissions caused by airplanes. 

At the same time, open source gets relevant momentum and can be found in many system implementations or is the foundation modern systems are built on. That's why we would like to propose you the TAG Sustainability. We as a community can lay the foundation for sustainable software, sustainable open source projects and best practices to deliver our part for a positive change in the future.

Please find our proposal here:

We would be more than happy to discuss this with you in the next TOC about the TAG. By questions feel free to reach out to us.

Best regards
Max



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Huamin Chen
 

Along that line, I would suggest the following early initiatives:

- Establish a sustainability methodology and best practice. There are abundant experiences and expertise across CNCF WGs and projects we can leverage. A highly fluid communication channel is needed to get this started.
- Incubate technology stacks towards green computing. I have been working with great minds across the industry on this topic, this is a very exciting area for innovations.
- Collaborate with ecosystems such as Green Software Foundation. Since Chris is with GSF, this is a good start.

Cheers!

Huamin


Chen Wang
 

Thanks, Huamin, for the concrete steps to start.

Hi, All, should we start with creating a channel under CNCF?

Thanks,
Chen


Max Koerbaecher <max@...>
 

Hello Chris,

thank you for your feedback. 
We addressed this in the proposal as well in the TOC meeting. We don't want to reinvent the wheel, but more over collect and aggregate on the one hand, and being a bridge or accelerator for the different CN projects on the other hand. Working with GSF, as well as other initiatives, will be one core part of the WG.

Best
Max

Am Do., 7. Apr. 2022 um 13:37 Uhr schrieb Chris Lloyd-Jones <chris.lloyd-jones@...>:

Hi folks,
This is my first ever CNCF email, as a newbie - and I wanted to clarify how this works regarding another Linux Foundation project, the Green Software Foundation: Green Software Foundation | GSF

I can see some folks have raised a similar question - some of the items in the vision and responsibilities are clearly different from the GSF, but some overlap.

That might be ok, but flagging now. 

Thanks,
Chris.

Chris Lloyd-Jones | Head of Open Technologies, Office of the CTO 

Calendar booking link 

[ Upcoming OOF – 7 April, 19-20 April, 2-9 May. ]



From: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of Wojtek Cichoń via lists.cncf.io <wojtek=akuity.io@...>
Sent: 07 April 2022 12:17
To: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...>; Max Koerbaecher <max@...>; Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...>
Subject: [External] Re: [cncf-toc] Proposal TAG Sustainability
 
You don't often get email from wojtek=akuity.io@.... Learn why this is important
Sounds great! I'm in! Where do I sign? 😉

In terms of the next steps - I assume that we have to split who does what and we could start by brainstorming ideas on how to answer the questions posed in your 1-3 points (surveys? outreach? etc.)

I thought that if you will be joining KubeCon EU in May we might try to arrange a meeting just to get to know each other. WDYT?
Before that happens, catching up once a month or two weeks would be good.

All the best!
Wojtek Cichoń
Founding Marketing Manager


On Wed Apr 6, 2022, 06:04 PM GMT, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
Max,

+1 to "Environmental Conservation WG" as the name and the initial tasks.

-- Dims

On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 2:01 PM Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:
Hello all,

thank you for having me at the TOC meeting yesterday and for the chance as well as the discussion on our proposal.
As a result of yesterday's discussion I first would like to put a renaming into the room:
"Environmental Conservation WG"

Following the recommendation, we would start as a working group also we see that there are a lot of jobs to be done, to oversight any project is at this time not part of it/too early and therefore not suitable for a TAG. Might change in the future.

Some of the initial task I see:
  • craft a team for the WG (I got already a couple of private messages and notes of interest)
  • scoping the activities - as mentioned in the meeting we see many dimensions, possibilities and ways of acting. an output here can be a kind of roadmap as well as a cloud native environmental impact map (work in this direction is generally done and need some CN spicing)
  • depending on the size of the team as well as the scoped activities, I would like to have the WG being active actually in to three directions
  • 1. towards the CNCF projects - did they worked already on something for improving their environment footprint? what are the problems they see? what is needed to overcome potential issues? etc.
  • 2. towards the enduser - as mentioned a key for this topic is awareness, and the our enduser are one/some of the strongest multiplicators. What are their current state? How OSS can help? Can we include this topic to the CNCF survey?
  • 3. bridging existing foundations and project - there are many initiatives out there, how we can bring them to our community? where we have a common sense? what is difficult for them to grow adoption? Lets learn from each other and be a vehicle for existing implementations/researches etc.
Sorry for the long email. I'm looking forward to your feedback, and your guidance to get the things started :)

Best
Max



Am Fr., 25. März 2022 um 01:33 Uhr schrieb Jaime Magiera <jaimelm@...>:
I’d be interested in contributing to this TAG, whatever the name will be. 

Jaime Magiera
DevOps Engineer Senior
ICPSR

"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea." 
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

On Mar 19, 2022, at 8:06 AM, Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:

Dear TOC,

we would like to propose you a new TAG. 

Sustainability is a growing and important topic and can be done effectively only if everyone delivers their part to it. The data centers' global energy consumption, and therefore the reason for CO2 emission, is around 2%. That maybe doesn't sound a lot but is equivalent to Canada or Germany, and is also bigger than the emissions caused by airplanes. 

At the same time, open source gets relevant momentum and can be found in many system implementations or is the foundation modern systems are built on. That's why we would like to propose you the TAG Sustainability. We as a community can lay the foundation for sustainable software, sustainable open source projects and best practices to deliver our part for a positive change in the future.

Please find our proposal here:

We would be more than happy to discuss this with you in the next TOC about the TAG. By questions feel free to reach out to us.

Best regards
Max



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Wojtek Cichoń
 

We need permission to that form :)
Wojtek Cichoń
Founding Marketing Manager


On Thu Apr 7, 2022, 02:25 PM GMT, Max Koerbaecher wrote:
Sorry for the spam, just saw that I skipped Wojtek answer.
I would be absolutely in for that and I'm pretty sure we can sponsor something for this like cold drinks :)
But before that, I would love to have a virtual kick-off assuming that some people can't make it to Valencia, and I would like to include everyone who is interested.

I have created a short form for the interested parties which we will add to the proposal: https://forms.gle/kJRmRa9WtRsn8csV8

Am Do., 7. Apr. 2022 um 15:37 Uhr schrieb Max Koerbaecher <max@...>:
Hello Chris,

thank you for your feedback. 
We addressed this in the proposal as well in the TOC meeting. We don't want to reinvent the wheel, but more over collect and aggregate on the one hand, and being a bridge or accelerator for the different CN projects on the other hand. Working with GSF, as well as other initiatives, will be one core part of the WG.

Best
Max

Am Do., 7. Apr. 2022 um 13:37 Uhr schrieb Chris Lloyd-Jones <chris.lloyd-jones@...>:
Hi folks,
This is my first ever CNCF email, as a newbie - and I wanted to clarify how this works regarding another Linux Foundation project, the Green Software Foundation: Green Software Foundation | GSF

I can see some folks have raised a similar question - some of the items in the vision and responsibilities are clearly different from the GSF, but some overlap.

That might be ok, but flagging now. 

Thanks,
Chris.

Chris Lloyd-Jones | Head of Open Technologies, Office of the CTO 

Calendar booking link 

[ Upcoming OOF – 7 April, 19-20 April, 2-9 May. ]



From: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of Wojtek Cichoń via lists.cncf.io <wojtek=akuity.io@...>
Sent: 07 April 2022 12:17
To: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...>; Max Koerbaecher <max@...>; Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...>
Subject: [External] Re: [cncf-toc] Proposal TAG Sustainability
 
You don't often get email from wojtek=akuity.io@.... Learn why this is important
Sounds great! I'm in! Where do I sign? 😉

In terms of the next steps - I assume that we have to split who does what and we could start by brainstorming ideas on how to answer the questions posed in your 1-3 points (surveys? outreach? etc.)

I thought that if you will be joining KubeCon EU in May we might try to arrange a meeting just to get to know each other. WDYT?
Before that happens, catching up once a month or two weeks would be good.

All the best!
Wojtek Cichoń
Founding Marketing Manager


On Wed Apr 6, 2022, 06:04 PM GMT, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
Max,

+1 to "Environmental Conservation WG" as the name and the initial tasks.

-- Dims

On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 2:01 PM Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:
Hello all,

thank you for having me at the TOC meeting yesterday and for the chance as well as the discussion on our proposal.
As a result of yesterday's discussion I first would like to put a renaming into the room:
"Environmental Conservation WG"

Following the recommendation, we would start as a working group also we see that there are a lot of jobs to be done, to oversight any project is at this time not part of it/too early and therefore not suitable for a TAG. Might change in the future.

Some of the initial task I see:
  • craft a team for the WG (I got already a couple of private messages and notes of interest)
  • scoping the activities - as mentioned in the meeting we see many dimensions, possibilities and ways of acting. an output here can be a kind of roadmap as well as a cloud native environmental impact map (work in this direction is generally done and need some CN spicing)
  • depending on the size of the team as well as the scoped activities, I would like to have the WG being active actually in to three directions
  • 1. towards the CNCF projects - did they worked already on something for improving their environment footprint? what are the problems they see? what is needed to overcome potential issues? etc.
  • 2. towards the enduser - as mentioned a key for this topic is awareness, and the our enduser are one/some of the strongest multiplicators. What are their current state? How OSS can help? Can we include this topic to the CNCF survey?
  • 3. bridging existing foundations and project - there are many initiatives out there, how we can bring them to our community? where we have a common sense? what is difficult for them to grow adoption? Lets learn from each other and be a vehicle for existing implementations/researches etc.
Sorry for the long email. I'm looking forward to your feedback, and your guidance to get the things started :)

Best
Max



Am Fr., 25. März 2022 um 01:33 Uhr schrieb Jaime Magiera <jaimelm@...>:
I’d be interested in contributing to this TAG, whatever the name will be. 

Jaime Magiera
DevOps Engineer Senior
ICPSR

"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea." 
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

On Mar 19, 2022, at 8:06 AM, Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:

Dear TOC,

we would like to propose you a new TAG. 

Sustainability is a growing and important topic and can be done effectively only if everyone delivers their part to it. The data centers' global energy consumption, and therefore the reason for CO2 emission, is around 2%. That maybe doesn't sound a lot but is equivalent to Canada or Germany, and is also bigger than the emissions caused by airplanes. 

At the same time, open source gets relevant momentum and can be found in many system implementations or is the foundation modern systems are built on. That's why we would like to propose you the TAG Sustainability. We as a community can lay the foundation for sustainable software, sustainable open source projects and best practices to deliver our part for a positive change in the future.

Please find our proposal here:

We would be more than happy to discuss this with you in the next TOC about the TAG. By questions feel free to reach out to us.

Best regards
Max



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Chris Lloyd
 

Sounds good to me :) 

Chris Lloyd-Jones | Head of Open Technologies, Office of the CTO 

Calendar booking link 

[ Upcoming OOF – 8 April, 19-20 April, 2-9 May. ]



From: Max Koerbaecher <max@...>
Sent: 07 April 2022 14:37
To: Chris Lloyd-Jones <chris.lloyd-jones@...>
Cc: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...>; Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...>; wojtek@... <wojtek@...>
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [cncf-toc] Proposal TAG Sustainability
 
Hello Chris,

thank you for your feedback. 
We addressed this in the proposal as well in the TOC meeting. We don't want to reinvent the wheel, but more over collect and aggregate on the one hand, and being a bridge or accelerator for the different CN projects on the other hand. Working with GSF, as well as other initiatives, will be one core part of the WG.

Best
Max

Am Do., 7. Apr. 2022 um 13:37 Uhr schrieb Chris Lloyd-Jones <chris.lloyd-jones@...>:

Hi folks,
This is my first ever CNCF email, as a newbie - and I wanted to clarify how this works regarding another Linux Foundation project, the Green Software Foundation: Green Software Foundation | GSF

I can see some folks have raised a similar question - some of the items in the vision and responsibilities are clearly different from the GSF, but some overlap.

That might be ok, but flagging now. 

Thanks,
Chris.

Chris Lloyd-Jones | Head of Open Technologies, Office of the CTO 

Calendar booking link 

[ Upcoming OOF – 7 April, 19-20 April, 2-9 May. ]



From: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of Wojtek Cichoń via lists.cncf.io <wojtek=akuity.io@...>
Sent: 07 April 2022 12:17
To: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...>; Max Koerbaecher <max@...>; Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...>
Subject: [External] Re: [cncf-toc] Proposal TAG Sustainability
 
You don't often get email from wojtek=akuity.io@.... Learn why this is important
Sounds great! I'm in! Where do I sign? 😉

In terms of the next steps - I assume that we have to split who does what and we could start by brainstorming ideas on how to answer the questions posed in your 1-3 points (surveys? outreach? etc.)

I thought that if you will be joining KubeCon EU in May we might try to arrange a meeting just to get to know each other. WDYT?
Before that happens, catching up once a month or two weeks would be good.

All the best!
Wojtek Cichoń
Founding Marketing Manager


On Wed Apr 6, 2022, 06:04 PM GMT, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
Max,

+1 to "Environmental Conservation WG" as the name and the initial tasks.

-- Dims

On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 2:01 PM Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:
Hello all,

thank you for having me at the TOC meeting yesterday and for the chance as well as the discussion on our proposal.
As a result of yesterday's discussion I first would like to put a renaming into the room:
"Environmental Conservation WG"

Following the recommendation, we would start as a working group also we see that there are a lot of jobs to be done, to oversight any project is at this time not part of it/too early and therefore not suitable for a TAG. Might change in the future.

Some of the initial task I see:
  • craft a team for the WG (I got already a couple of private messages and notes of interest)
  • scoping the activities - as mentioned in the meeting we see many dimensions, possibilities and ways of acting. an output here can be a kind of roadmap as well as a cloud native environmental impact map (work in this direction is generally done and need some CN spicing)
  • depending on the size of the team as well as the scoped activities, I would like to have the WG being active actually in to three directions
  • 1. towards the CNCF projects - did they worked already on something for improving their environment footprint? what are the problems they see? what is needed to overcome potential issues? etc.
  • 2. towards the enduser - as mentioned a key for this topic is awareness, and the our enduser are one/some of the strongest multiplicators. What are their current state? How OSS can help? Can we include this topic to the CNCF survey?
  • 3. bridging existing foundations and project - there are many initiatives out there, how we can bring them to our community? where we have a common sense? what is difficult for them to grow adoption? Lets learn from each other and be a vehicle for existing implementations/researches etc.
Sorry for the long email. I'm looking forward to your feedback, and your guidance to get the things started :)

Best
Max



Am Fr., 25. März 2022 um 01:33 Uhr schrieb Jaime Magiera <jaimelm@...>:
I’d be interested in contributing to this TAG, whatever the name will be. 

Jaime Magiera
DevOps Engineer Senior
ICPSR

"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea." 
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

On Mar 19, 2022, at 8:06 AM, Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:

Dear TOC,

we would like to propose you a new TAG. 

Sustainability is a growing and important topic and can be done effectively only if everyone delivers their part to it. The data centers' global energy consumption, and therefore the reason for CO2 emission, is around 2%. That maybe doesn't sound a lot but is equivalent to Canada or Germany, and is also bigger than the emissions caused by airplanes. 

At the same time, open source gets relevant momentum and can be found in many system implementations or is the foundation modern systems are built on. That's why we would like to propose you the TAG Sustainability. We as a community can lay the foundation for sustainable software, sustainable open source projects and best practices to deliver our part for a positive change in the future.

Please find our proposal here:

We would be more than happy to discuss this with you in the next TOC about the TAG. By questions feel free to reach out to us.

Best regards
Max



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Max Koerbaecher <max@...>
 

Sorry for the spam, just saw that I skipped Wojtek answer.
I would be absolutely in for that and I'm pretty sure we can sponsor something for this like cold drinks :)
But before that, I would love to have a virtual kick-off assuming that some people can't make it to Valencia, and I would like to include everyone who is interested.

I have created a short form for the interested parties which we will add to the proposal: https://forms.gle/kJRmRa9WtRsn8csV8

Am Do., 7. Apr. 2022 um 15:37 Uhr schrieb Max Koerbaecher <max@...>:

Hello Chris,

thank you for your feedback. 
We addressed this in the proposal as well in the TOC meeting. We don't want to reinvent the wheel, but more over collect and aggregate on the one hand, and being a bridge or accelerator for the different CN projects on the other hand. Working with GSF, as well as other initiatives, will be one core part of the WG.

Best
Max

Am Do., 7. Apr. 2022 um 13:37 Uhr schrieb Chris Lloyd-Jones <chris.lloyd-jones@...>:
Hi folks,
This is my first ever CNCF email, as a newbie - and I wanted to clarify how this works regarding another Linux Foundation project, the Green Software Foundation: Green Software Foundation | GSF

I can see some folks have raised a similar question - some of the items in the vision and responsibilities are clearly different from the GSF, but some overlap.

That might be ok, but flagging now. 

Thanks,
Chris.

Chris Lloyd-Jones | Head of Open Technologies, Office of the CTO 

Calendar booking link 

[ Upcoming OOF – 7 April, 19-20 April, 2-9 May. ]



From: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of Wojtek Cichoń via lists.cncf.io <wojtek=akuity.io@...>
Sent: 07 April 2022 12:17
To: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...>; Max Koerbaecher <max@...>; Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...>
Subject: [External] Re: [cncf-toc] Proposal TAG Sustainability
 
You don't often get email from wojtek=akuity.io@.... Learn why this is important
Sounds great! I'm in! Where do I sign? 😉

In terms of the next steps - I assume that we have to split who does what and we could start by brainstorming ideas on how to answer the questions posed in your 1-3 points (surveys? outreach? etc.)

I thought that if you will be joining KubeCon EU in May we might try to arrange a meeting just to get to know each other. WDYT?
Before that happens, catching up once a month or two weeks would be good.

All the best!
Wojtek Cichoń
Founding Marketing Manager


On Wed Apr 6, 2022, 06:04 PM GMT, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
Max,

+1 to "Environmental Conservation WG" as the name and the initial tasks.

-- Dims

On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 2:01 PM Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:
Hello all,

thank you for having me at the TOC meeting yesterday and for the chance as well as the discussion on our proposal.
As a result of yesterday's discussion I first would like to put a renaming into the room:
"Environmental Conservation WG"

Following the recommendation, we would start as a working group also we see that there are a lot of jobs to be done, to oversight any project is at this time not part of it/too early and therefore not suitable for a TAG. Might change in the future.

Some of the initial task I see:
  • craft a team for the WG (I got already a couple of private messages and notes of interest)
  • scoping the activities - as mentioned in the meeting we see many dimensions, possibilities and ways of acting. an output here can be a kind of roadmap as well as a cloud native environmental impact map (work in this direction is generally done and need some CN spicing)
  • depending on the size of the team as well as the scoped activities, I would like to have the WG being active actually in to three directions
  • 1. towards the CNCF projects - did they worked already on something for improving their environment footprint? what are the problems they see? what is needed to overcome potential issues? etc.
  • 2. towards the enduser - as mentioned a key for this topic is awareness, and the our enduser are one/some of the strongest multiplicators. What are their current state? How OSS can help? Can we include this topic to the CNCF survey?
  • 3. bridging existing foundations and project - there are many initiatives out there, how we can bring them to our community? where we have a common sense? what is difficult for them to grow adoption? Lets learn from each other and be a vehicle for existing implementations/researches etc.
Sorry for the long email. I'm looking forward to your feedback, and your guidance to get the things started :)

Best
Max



Am Fr., 25. März 2022 um 01:33 Uhr schrieb Jaime Magiera <jaimelm@...>:
I’d be interested in contributing to this TAG, whatever the name will be. 

Jaime Magiera
DevOps Engineer Senior
ICPSR

"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea." 
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

On Mar 19, 2022, at 8:06 AM, Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:

Dear TOC,

we would like to propose you a new TAG. 

Sustainability is a growing and important topic and can be done effectively only if everyone delivers their part to it. The data centers' global energy consumption, and therefore the reason for CO2 emission, is around 2%. That maybe doesn't sound a lot but is equivalent to Canada or Germany, and is also bigger than the emissions caused by airplanes. 

At the same time, open source gets relevant momentum and can be found in many system implementations or is the foundation modern systems are built on. That's why we would like to propose you the TAG Sustainability. We as a community can lay the foundation for sustainable software, sustainable open source projects and best practices to deliver our part for a positive change in the future.

Please find our proposal here:

We would be more than happy to discuss this with you in the next TOC about the TAG. By questions feel free to reach out to us.

Best regards
Max



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


ayoussef@...
 

I agree with the points Huamin raised, especially on "Incubate technology stacks towards green computing"!

Thanks,
Alaa