Interesting tech marketing from Amazon


alexis richardson
 

I thought this was worth sharing as an example of the sort of tech-biz guidance that members of the CNCF community could write.  The piece is by someone from AWS and talks about cloud native vs other cloudy things.



Mark Coleman <mark@...>
 

I like the model of bringing in end user stories to support the point being made.

The point here clearly seems to be "it's ok to move all your shit to the cloud snd figure it out there" which is an unsurprising position for AWS to take. This is not an opposing point to our mission(TM) though so I will explore this.

Right now I'm mainly concerned that our definition of cloud native is not everyone else's.

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:34 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
I thought this was worth sharing as an example of the sort of tech-biz guidance that members of the CNCF community could write.  The piece is by someone from AWS and talks about cloud native vs other cloudy things.


--
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alexis richardson
 

yes

we need to develop a cloud native brand that has values which developers want

- free & open 
- automated pipelines
- faster to make changes
- ..?


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:07 AM Mark Coleman <mark@...> wrote:
I like the model of bringing in end user stories to support the point being made.

The point here clearly seems to be "it's ok to move all your shit to the cloud snd figure it out there" which is an unsurprising position for AWS to take. This is not an opposing point to our mission(TM) though so I will explore this.

Right now I'm mainly concerned that our definition of cloud native is not everyone else's.

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:34 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
I thought this was worth sharing as an example of the sort of tech-biz guidance that members of the CNCF community could write.  The piece is by someone from AWS and talks about cloud native vs other cloudy things.


--


Dustin Kirkland <kirkland@...>
 

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc
<cncf-toc@...> wrote:
yes

we need to develop a cloud native brand that has values which developers
want

- free & open
- automated pipelines
- faster to make changes
- ..?
+1 to those. Here are a few others:

- interoperability with others
- choice/plugability at every level
- velocity, but stability


Mark Coleman <mark@...>
 

I think I summarised it in this piece that I ghost wrote for Luke when he was at ClusterHQ (Friend D A please): https://www.infoq.com/articles/microservices-revolution

We have a cloud native triangle composed of:

1. Speed of change (I refer to this as agility in that doc but in general would like to avoid the term moving forwards)
2. Resilience (We should be able to change software quickly and not have it break due to internal or external factors)
3. Scale: We'd like to do really big stuff

From those core requirements we can rationalize containerization, microservices and continuous delivery.

From those 'practices' we can talk about specific tools.

Where we fall down is when we start from the tools, but obviously a large part of getting things right (especially microservices I would argue) require pink matter.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:09 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
yes

we need to develop a cloud native brand that has values which developers want

- free & open 
- automated pipelines
- faster to make changes
- ..?


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:07 AM Mark Coleman <mark@...> wrote:
I like the model of bringing in end user stories to support the point being made.

The point here clearly seems to be "it's ok to move all your shit to the cloud snd figure it out there" which is an unsurprising position for AWS to take. This is not an opposing point to our mission(TM) though so I will explore this.

Right now I'm mainly concerned that our definition of cloud native is not everyone else's.

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:34 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
I thought this was worth sharing as an example of the sort of tech-biz guidance that members of the CNCF community could write.  The piece is by someone from AWS and talks about cloud native vs other cloudy things.


--
--
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Marketing Chair www.cncf.io


Mark Coleman <mark@...>
 

*but obviously = *because obviously


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:15 AM Mark Coleman <mark@...> wrote:
I think I summarised it in this piece that I ghost wrote for Luke when he was at ClusterHQ (Friend D A please): https://www.infoq.com/articles/microservices-revolution

We have a cloud native triangle composed of:

1. Speed of change (I refer to this as agility in that doc but in general would like to avoid the term moving forwards)
2. Resilience (We should be able to change software quickly and not have it break due to internal or external factors)
3. Scale: We'd like to do really big stuff

From those core requirements we can rationalize containerization, microservices and continuous delivery.

From those 'practices' we can talk about specific tools.

Where we fall down is when we start from the tools, but obviously a large part of getting things right (especially microservices I would argue) require pink matter.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:09 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
yes

we need to develop a cloud native brand that has values which developers want

- free & open 
- automated pipelines
- faster to make changes
- ..?


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:07 AM Mark Coleman <mark@...> wrote:
I like the model of bringing in end user stories to support the point being made.

The point here clearly seems to be "it's ok to move all your shit to the cloud snd figure it out there" which is an unsurprising position for AWS to take. This is not an opposing point to our mission(TM) though so I will explore this.

Right now I'm mainly concerned that our definition of cloud native is not everyone else's.

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:34 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
I thought this was worth sharing as an example of the sort of tech-biz guidance that members of the CNCF community could write.  The piece is by someone from AWS and talks about cloud native vs other cloudy things.


--
--
--
+31 652134960
Marketing Chair www.cncf.io


alexis richardson
 

I like those Dustin.

Can we come up with "5 values"?

Let's say that Sally is a developer, and thinking about attending a Cloud Native conference or meetup in 2017.  What are the shared values of the people whom she expects to meet there?  What is it about her "tribe" that makes it different from other communities?


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:13 AM Dustin Kirkland <kirkland@...> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc
<cncf-toc@...> wrote:
> yes
>
> we need to develop a cloud native brand that has values which developers
> want
>
> - free & open
> - automated pipelines
> - faster to make changes
> - ..?

+1 to those.  Here are a few others:

 - interoperability with others
 - choice/plugability at every level
 - velocity, but stability


alexis richardson
 

Mark,

Those are good too :-)  Please see my reply to Dustin.  Can we come up with "5 values"?  (or is it 3? it can't be more than 5).  What are the key freedoms and capabilities that impact cloud native app developers at a primal/emotional level?  "I'm here because I love ..."

a


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:15 AM Mark Coleman <mark@...> wrote:
I think I summarised it in this piece that I ghost wrote for Luke when he was at ClusterHQ (Friend D A please): https://www.infoq.com/articles/microservices-revolution

We have a cloud native triangle composed of:

1. Speed of change (I refer to this as agility in that doc but in general would like to avoid the term moving forwards)
2. Resilience (We should be able to change software quickly and not have it break due to internal or external factors)
3. Scale: We'd like to do really big stuff

From those core requirements we can rationalize containerization, microservices and continuous delivery.

From those 'practices' we can talk about specific tools.

Where we fall down is when we start from the tools, but obviously a large part of getting things right (especially microservices I would argue) require pink matter.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:09 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
yes

we need to develop a cloud native brand that has values which developers want

- free & open 
- automated pipelines
- faster to make changes
- ..?


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:07 AM Mark Coleman <mark@...> wrote:
I like the model of bringing in end user stories to support the point being made.

The point here clearly seems to be "it's ok to move all your shit to the cloud snd figure it out there" which is an unsurprising position for AWS to take. This is not an opposing point to our mission(TM) though so I will explore this.

Right now I'm mainly concerned that our definition of cloud native is not everyone else's.

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:34 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
I thought this was worth sharing as an example of the sort of tech-biz guidance that members of the CNCF community could write.  The piece is by someone from AWS and talks about cloud native vs other cloudy things.


--
--


Anthony Skipper <anthony@...>
 

I'd argue that if you had good tools, you wouldn't need microservices.




On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Mark Coleman via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
I think I summarised it in this piece that I ghost wrote for Luke when he was at ClusterHQ (Friend D A please): https://www.infoq.com/articles/microservices-revolution

We have a cloud native triangle composed of:

1. Speed of change (I refer to this as agility in that doc but in general would like to avoid the term moving forwards)
2. Resilience (We should be able to change software quickly and not have it break due to internal or external factors)
3. Scale: We'd like to do really big stuff

From those core requirements we can rationalize containerization, microservices and continuous delivery.

From those 'practices' we can talk about specific tools.

Where we fall down is when we start from the tools, but obviously a large part of getting things right (especially microservices I would argue) require pink matter.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:09 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
yes

we need to develop a cloud native brand that has values which developers want

- free & open 
- automated pipelines
- faster to make changes
- ..?


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:07 AM Mark Coleman <mark@...> wrote:
I like the model of bringing in end user stories to support the point being made.

The point here clearly seems to be "it's ok to move all your shit to the cloud snd figure it out there" which is an unsurprising position for AWS to take. This is not an opposing point to our mission(TM) though so I will explore this.

Right now I'm mainly concerned that our definition of cloud native is not everyone else's.

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:34 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
I thought this was worth sharing as an example of the sort of tech-biz guidance that members of the CNCF community could write.  The piece is by someone from AWS and talks about cloud native vs other cloudy things.


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alexis richardson
 



On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:20 AM Anthony Skipper <anthony@...> wrote:
I'd argue that if you had good tools, you wouldn't need microservices.

Yes, I don't think microservices is a core value.  It's one of several modern cloud native patterns that is useful for some organisational and technical issues.  But not the only one.

 




On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Mark Coleman via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
I think I summarised it in this piece that I ghost wrote for Luke when he was at ClusterHQ (Friend D A please): https://www.infoq.com/articles/microservices-revolution

We have a cloud native triangle composed of:

1. Speed of change (I refer to this as agility in that doc but in general would like to avoid the term moving forwards)
2. Resilience (We should be able to change software quickly and not have it break due to internal or external factors)
3. Scale: We'd like to do really big stuff

From those core requirements we can rationalize containerization, microservices and continuous delivery.

From those 'practices' we can talk about specific tools.

Where we fall down is when we start from the tools, but obviously a large part of getting things right (especially microservices I would argue) require pink matter.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:09 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
yes

we need to develop a cloud native brand that has values which developers want

- free & open 
- automated pipelines
- faster to make changes
- ..?


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:07 AM Mark Coleman <mark@...> wrote:
I like the model of bringing in end user stories to support the point being made.

The point here clearly seems to be "it's ok to move all your shit to the cloud snd figure it out there" which is an unsurprising position for AWS to take. This is not an opposing point to our mission(TM) though so I will explore this.

Right now I'm mainly concerned that our definition of cloud native is not everyone else's.

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:34 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
I thought this was worth sharing as an example of the sort of tech-biz guidance that members of the CNCF community could write.  The piece is by someone from AWS and talks about cloud native vs other cloudy things.


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Camille Fournier
 

Microservices are cloud native because they are a natural product of the ease of use for cloud. In a evolutionary way I would call them absolutely cloud native, which doesn't mean one must use them to effectively use the cloud but they do effectively show how cloud changed the way developers thought about building systems.

On Feb 14, 2017 10:22 AM, "Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc" <cncf-toc@...> wrote:


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:20 AM Anthony Skipper <anthony@...> wrote:
I'd argue that if you had good tools, you wouldn't need microservices.

Yes, I don't think microservices is a core value.  It's one of several modern cloud native patterns that is useful for some organisational and technical issues.  But not the only one.

 




On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Mark Coleman via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
I think I summarised it in this piece that I ghost wrote for Luke when he was at ClusterHQ (Friend D A please): https://www.infoq.com/articles/microservices-revolution

We have a cloud native triangle composed of:

1. Speed of change (I refer to this as agility in that doc but in general would like to avoid the term moving forwards)
2. Resilience (We should be able to change software quickly and not have it break due to internal or external factors)
3. Scale: We'd like to do really big stuff

From those core requirements we can rationalize containerization, microservices and continuous delivery.

From those 'practices' we can talk about specific tools.

Where we fall down is when we start from the tools, but obviously a large part of getting things right (especially microservices I would argue) require pink matter.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:09 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
yes

we need to develop a cloud native brand that has values which developers want

- free & open 
- automated pipelines
- faster to make changes
- ..?


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:07 AM Mark Coleman <mark@...> wrote:
I like the model of bringing in end user stories to support the point being made.

The point here clearly seems to be "it's ok to move all your shit to the cloud snd figure it out there" which is an unsurprising position for AWS to take. This is not an opposing point to our mission(TM) though so I will explore this.

Right now I'm mainly concerned that our definition of cloud native is not everyone else's.

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:34 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
I thought this was worth sharing as an example of the sort of tech-biz guidance that members of the CNCF community could write.  The piece is by someone from AWS and talks about cloud native vs other cloudy things.


--

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cncf-toc@...
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Mark Coleman <mark@...>
 

I agree that we may need to think more about how we communicate about microservices, but do we agree that the underlying purpose of cloud native is:

1. Speed of change (I used to refer to this as agility but in general would like to avoid the term moving forwards)
2. Resilience (We should be able to change software quickly and not have it break due to internal or external factors)
3. Scale: We'd like to do really big stuff

?

If we know what problems we're solving it will be easier to talk about specific practices and tools in a coherent manner.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:24 AM Camille Fournier <skamille@...> wrote:
Microservices are cloud native because they are a natural product of the ease of use for cloud. In a evolutionary way I would call them absolutely cloud native, which doesn't mean one must use them to effectively use the cloud but they do effectively show how cloud changed the way developers thought about building systems.

On Feb 14, 2017 10:22 AM, "Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc" <cncf-toc@...> wrote:


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:20 AM Anthony Skipper <anthony@...> wrote:
I'd argue that if you had good tools, you wouldn't need microservices.

Yes, I don't think microservices is a core value.  It's one of several modern cloud native patterns that is useful for some organisational and technical issues.  But not the only one.

 




On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Mark Coleman via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
I think I summarised it in this piece that I ghost wrote for Luke when he was at ClusterHQ (Friend D A please): https://www.infoq.com/articles/microservices-revolution

We have a cloud native triangle composed of:

1. Speed of change (I refer to this as agility in that doc but in general would like to avoid the term moving forwards)
2. Resilience (We should be able to change software quickly and not have it break due to internal or external factors)
3. Scale: We'd like to do really big stuff

From those core requirements we can rationalize containerization, microservices and continuous delivery.

From those 'practices' we can talk about specific tools.

Where we fall down is when we start from the tools, but obviously a large part of getting things right (especially microservices I would argue) require pink matter.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:09 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
yes

we need to develop a cloud native brand that has values which developers want

- free & open 
- automated pipelines
- faster to make changes
- ..?


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:07 AM Mark Coleman <mark@...> wrote:
I like the model of bringing in end user stories to support the point being made.

The point here clearly seems to be "it's ok to move all your shit to the cloud snd figure it out there" which is an unsurprising position for AWS to take. This is not an opposing point to our mission(TM) though so I will explore this.

Right now I'm mainly concerned that our definition of cloud native is not everyone else's.

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:34 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
I thought this was worth sharing as an example of the sort of tech-biz guidance that members of the CNCF community could write.  The piece is by someone from AWS and talks about cloud native vs other cloudy things.


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Andrew Randall
 

think we should aim for 3 core principles. Any more than that and people won't be able to repeat as a mantra.

Currently the charter has:
- container packaged
- dynamically managed
- micro-services oriented.

I like Mark's comments. However, I worry about "massive scale" as a message. LOTS of people I talked with at CloudNativeCon and other shows recently have been doing fairly small scale deployments, but they're still cloud native. I think the nature of how we scale is important -- it's about the distributed, scale-out architectures that enable massive scale (but don't impose a cost burden for the small development shop that's running on a half dozen VMs in AWS).

I think "Dynamically scalable" captures that better.

So:
1. Speed of change
2. Resilience
3. Dynamically scalable

And you could add "built on open source foundation" as a fourth, or leave it implicit given the foundation nature of LF/CNCF.

Andy



On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:32 AM Mark Coleman via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
I agree that we may need to think more about how we communicate about microservices, but do we agree that the underlying purpose of cloud native is:

1. Speed of change (I used to refer to this as agility but in general would like to avoid the term moving forwards)
2. Resilience (We should be able to change software quickly and not have it break due to internal or external factors)
3. Scale: We'd like to do really big stuff

?

If we know what problems we're solving it will be easier to talk about specific practices and tools in a coherent manner.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:24 AM Camille Fournier <skamille@...> wrote:
Microservices are cloud native because they are a natural product of the ease of use for cloud. In a evolutionary way I would call them absolutely cloud native, which doesn't mean one must use them to effectively use the cloud but they do effectively show how cloud changed the way developers thought about building systems.

On Feb 14, 2017 10:22 AM, "Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc" <cncf-toc@...> wrote:


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:20 AM Anthony Skipper <anthony@...> wrote:
I'd argue that if you had good tools, you wouldn't need microservices.

Yes, I don't think microservices is a core value.  It's one of several modern cloud native patterns that is useful for some organisational and technical issues.  But not the only one.

 




On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Mark Coleman via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
I think I summarised it in this piece that I ghost wrote for Luke when he was at ClusterHQ (Friend D A please): https://www.infoq.com/articles/microservices-revolution

We have a cloud native triangle composed of:

1. Speed of change (I refer to this as agility in that doc but in general would like to avoid the term moving forwards)
2. Resilience (We should be able to change software quickly and not have it break due to internal or external factors)
3. Scale: We'd like to do really big stuff

From those core requirements we can rationalize containerization, microservices and continuous delivery.

From those 'practices' we can talk about specific tools.

Where we fall down is when we start from the tools, but obviously a large part of getting things right (especially microservices I would argue) require pink matter.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:09 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
yes

we need to develop a cloud native brand that has values which developers want

- free & open 
- automated pipelines
- faster to make changes
- ..?


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:07 AM Mark Coleman <mark@...> wrote:
I like the model of bringing in end user stories to support the point being made.

The point here clearly seems to be "it's ok to move all your shit to the cloud snd figure it out there" which is an unsurprising position for AWS to take. This is not an opposing point to our mission(TM) though so I will explore this.

Right now I'm mainly concerned that our definition of cloud native is not everyone else's.

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:34 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
I thought this was worth sharing as an example of the sort of tech-biz guidance that members of the CNCF community could write.  The piece is by someone from AWS and talks about cloud native vs other cloudy things.


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510-520-0999


Dustin Kirkland <kirkland@...>
 

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 12:37 PM, Andrew Randall via cncf-toc
<cncf-toc@...> wrote:
I think we should aim for 3 core principles. Any more than that and people
won't be able to repeat as a mantra.
Agreed. I can only remember about 3 of the 12-factors :-)


Mark Coleman <mark@...>
 

Andy, I like dynamically scalable. That's much better.

I'd also like to add that what we're proposing here is that people can get any or all of those 3 by going cloud native. I think that's an important distinction.


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:40 AM Dustin Kirkland <kirkland@...> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 12:37 PM, Andrew Randall via cncf-toc
<cncf-toc@...> wrote:
> I think we should aim for 3 core principles. Any more than that and people
> won't be able to repeat as a mantra.

Agreed.  I can only remember about 3 of the 12-factors :-)
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Scott McCarty
 

On 02/14/2017 01:41 PM, Mark Coleman via cncf-toc wrote:
Andy, I like dynamically scalable. That's much better.
Dynamic, or horizontal....

I'd also like to add that what we're proposing here is that people can get any /or all/ of those 3 by going cloud native. I think that's an important distinction.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:40 AM Dustin Kirkland <kirkland@... <mailto:kirkland@...>> wrote:

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 12:37 PM, Andrew Randall via cncf-toc
<cncf-toc@... <mailto:cncf-toc@...>> wrote:
> I think we should aim for 3 core principles. Any more than that
and people
> won't be able to repeat as a mantra.

Agreed. I can only remember about 3 of the 12-factors :-)

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Technical Product Marketing: Containers

Email: smccarty@...

Phone: 312-660-3535

Cell: 330-807-1043

Web: http://crunchtools.com

When should you split your application into multiple containers? http://red.ht/22xKw9i


alexis richardson
 

Just to wrap up this thread:

1) Thanks to everyone for the sparky contributions.  This is clearly an area that matters to people.

2) During the GB & TOC meetings yesterday, it was decided to take steps to unify and write out the CNCF thinking on positioning. The CTA here is: please connect with Mark Coleman, marketing committee chair.

alexis


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 11:35 AM Scott McCarty via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:


On 02/14/2017 01:41 PM, Mark Coleman via cncf-toc wrote:
> Andy, I like dynamically scalable. That's much better.
Dynamic, or horizontal....
>
> I'd also like to add that what we're proposing here is that people can
> get any /or all/ of those 3 by going cloud native. I think that's an
> important distinction.
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:40 AM Dustin Kirkland
> <kirkland@... <mailto:kirkland@...>> wrote:
>
>     On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 12:37 PM, Andrew Randall via cncf-toc
>     <cncf-toc@... <mailto:cncf-toc@...>> wrote:
>     > I think we should aim for 3 core principles. Any more than that
>     and people
>     > won't be able to repeat as a mantra.
>
>     Agreed.  I can only remember about 3 of the 12-factors :-)
>
> --
> +31 652134960
> CEO www.implicit-explicit.com <http://www.implicit-explicit.com>
> Co-Founder www.softwarecircus.io <http://softwarecircus.io/>
> Marketing Chair www.cncf.io <https://www.cncf.io/>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> cncf-toc mailing list
> cncf-toc@...
> https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc

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Email: smccarty@...

Phone: 312-660-3535

Cell: 330-807-1043

Web: http://crunchtools.com

When should you split your application into multiple containers?
http://red.ht/22xKw9i

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Joe Beda
 

Hey all,

This is all winding down but I wanted to throw a couple of cents in.  I wrote a series of blog posts looking at this as we launched Heptio:  https://blog.heptio.com/cloud-native-part-1-definition-716ed30e9193#.raih0u3m0

Joe


On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:25 AM Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
Just to wrap up this thread:

1) Thanks to everyone for the sparky contributions.  This is clearly an area that matters to people.

2) During the GB & TOC meetings yesterday, it was decided to take steps to unify and write out the CNCF thinking on positioning. The CTA here is: please connect with Mark Coleman, marketing committee chair.

alexis


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 11:35 AM Scott McCarty via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:


On 02/14/2017 01:41 PM, Mark Coleman via cncf-toc wrote:
> Andy, I like dynamically scalable. That's much better.
Dynamic, or horizontal....
>
> I'd also like to add that what we're proposing here is that people can
> get any /or all/ of those 3 by going cloud native. I think that's an
> important distinction.
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:40 AM Dustin Kirkland
> <kirkland@... <mailto:kirkland@...>> wrote:
>
>     On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 12:37 PM, Andrew Randall via cncf-toc
>     <cncf-toc@... <mailto:cncf-toc@...>> wrote:
>     > I think we should aim for 3 core principles. Any more than that
>     and people
>     > won't be able to repeat as a mantra.
>
>     Agreed.  I can only remember about 3 of the 12-factors :-)
>
> --
> +31 652134960
> CEO www.implicit-explicit.com <http://www.implicit-explicit.com>
> Co-Founder www.softwarecircus.io <http://softwarecircus.io/>
> Marketing Chair www.cncf.io <https://www.cncf.io/>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> cncf-toc mailing list
> cncf-toc@...
> https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc

--

Scott McCarty, RHCA

Technical Product Marketing: Containers

Email: smccarty@...

Phone: 312-660-3535

Cell: 330-807-1043

Web: http://crunchtools.com

When should you split your application into multiple containers?
http://red.ht/22xKw9i

_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc
_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc


alexis richardson
 

Many thanks Joe!  I thought that was a great series.  Do you still have your cloud native white paper from last year, or do you consider that to be dated now?


On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 11:21 AM Joe Beda <joe@...> wrote:
Hey all,

This is all winding down but I wanted to throw a couple of cents in.  I wrote a series of blog posts looking at this as we launched Heptio:  https://blog.heptio.com/cloud-native-part-1-definition-716ed30e9193#.raih0u3m0

Joe


On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:25 AM Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
Just to wrap up this thread:

1) Thanks to everyone for the sparky contributions.  This is clearly an area that matters to people.

2) During the GB & TOC meetings yesterday, it was decided to take steps to unify and write out the CNCF thinking on positioning. The CTA here is: please connect with Mark Coleman, marketing committee chair.

alexis


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 11:35 AM Scott McCarty via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:


On 02/14/2017 01:41 PM, Mark Coleman via cncf-toc wrote:
> Andy, I like dynamically scalable. That's much better.
Dynamic, or horizontal....
>
> I'd also like to add that what we're proposing here is that people can
> get any /or all/ of those 3 by going cloud native. I think that's an
> important distinction.
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:40 AM Dustin Kirkland
> <kirkland@... <mailto:kirkland@...>> wrote:
>
>     On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 12:37 PM, Andrew Randall via cncf-toc
>     <cncf-toc@... <mailto:cncf-toc@...>> wrote:
>     > I think we should aim for 3 core principles. Any more than that
>     and people
>     > won't be able to repeat as a mantra.
>
>     Agreed.  I can only remember about 3 of the 12-factors :-)
>
> --
> +31 652134960
> CEO www.implicit-explicit.com <http://www.implicit-explicit.com>
> Co-Founder www.softwarecircus.io <http://softwarecircus.io/>
> Marketing Chair www.cncf.io <https://www.cncf.io/>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> cncf-toc mailing list
> cncf-toc@...
> https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc

--

Scott McCarty, RHCA

Technical Product Marketing: Containers

Email: smccarty@...

Phone: 312-660-3535

Cell: 330-807-1043

Web: http://crunchtools.com

When should you split your application into multiple containers?
http://red.ht/22xKw9i

_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc
_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc


Joe Beda
 

This series was essentially a reworking of that.  I tried to update it as I wrote it out.

This stuff was aimed at the ~CIO level so I tried to keep things approachable but real.  Happy to go in to more depth if the discussion would be useful.

Joe

On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 11:27 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
Many thanks Joe!  I thought that was a great series.  Do you still have your cloud native white paper from last year, or do you consider that to be dated now?


On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 11:21 AM Joe Beda <joe@...> wrote:
Hey all,

This is all winding down but I wanted to throw a couple of cents in.  I wrote a series of blog posts looking at this as we launched Heptio:  https://blog.heptio.com/cloud-native-part-1-definition-716ed30e9193#.raih0u3m0

Joe


On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:25 AM Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
Just to wrap up this thread:

1) Thanks to everyone for the sparky contributions.  This is clearly an area that matters to people.

2) During the GB & TOC meetings yesterday, it was decided to take steps to unify and write out the CNCF thinking on positioning. The CTA here is: please connect with Mark Coleman, marketing committee chair.

alexis


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 11:35 AM Scott McCarty via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:


On 02/14/2017 01:41 PM, Mark Coleman via cncf-toc wrote:
> Andy, I like dynamically scalable. That's much better.
Dynamic, or horizontal....
>
> I'd also like to add that what we're proposing here is that people can
> get any /or all/ of those 3 by going cloud native. I think that's an
> important distinction.
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:40 AM Dustin Kirkland
> <kirkland@... <mailto:kirkland@...>> wrote:
>
>     On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 12:37 PM, Andrew Randall via cncf-toc
>     <cncf-toc@... <mailto:cncf-toc@...>> wrote:
>     > I think we should aim for 3 core principles. Any more than that
>     and people
>     > won't be able to repeat as a mantra.
>
>     Agreed.  I can only remember about 3 of the 12-factors :-)
>
> --
> +31 652134960
> CEO www.implicit-explicit.com <http://www.implicit-explicit.com>
> Co-Founder www.softwarecircus.io <http://softwarecircus.io/>
> Marketing Chair www.cncf.io <https://www.cncf.io/>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> cncf-toc mailing list
> cncf-toc@...
> https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc

--

Scott McCarty, RHCA

Technical Product Marketing: Containers

Email: smccarty@...

Phone: 312-660-3535

Cell: 330-807-1043

Web: http://crunchtools.com

When should you split your application into multiple containers?
http://red.ht/22xKw9i

_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc
_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc