Chris,

I'm a little confused about the nomination process. In particular, I can't see where in the charter it describes who many nominate candidates for the TOC. In section 6(e)(ii) it says:

Each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate up to two (2) technical representatives, (from vendors, end users or any other fields), at most one of which may be from their respective company. The nominee(s) must agree to participate prior to being added to the nomination list.

But I cannot see where in the doc it is actually defines who is eligible to nominate a TOC member.  (Our implementation is that it is voting members of the governing board who are permitted to nominate, but why wouldn't the charter say that if that's the intent?)  I am trying to recall our chartering discussions, and I seem to recall that one of the advantages of any level of membership was that a member could nominate for the TOC; is that incorrect?  If so, would you mind pointing me to the document that defines the nomination process?

Somewhat similarly: I think it will also be helpful to get clarity about the origins of each member, to clearly delineate the 6 GB-determined members from the 2 TOC-determined members from the 1 end user-determined member.  Which is really a polite way of me saying that between the initial TOC conditions, the resignations, etc., I have lost track of who's who. ;)

          - Bryan

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 2:32 PM Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:

TOC nominations are starting TODAY for the 6 TOC slots that open up in Jan 2019 that are selected by GB members (they can propose UP TO TWO NOMINEES as part of the GB, where you can only nominate up to one candidate from your organization, the other candidate has to be outside your organization): https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md

The seats that open up are:

Jonathan Boulle (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Bryan Cantrill (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Camille Fournier (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Benjamin Hindman (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Ken Owens (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Alexis Richardson (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)

Here's the timeline for the election, we are giving ample time due to the holidays:

Oct 26th: Nominations Open (TODAY)
Nov 26th: Nominations Close
Nov 27th: Qualification Period Opens
Dec 14th: Qualification Period Closes (end of KubeCon Seattle)
Dec 17th: Election Opens
Jan 22nd: Election Closes
Jan 29th: Election Results Posted!

In summary, these nominations are for the 6 slots nominated by the CNCF Governing Board (GB) members. You have to be a CNCF GB member in order to nominate someone. Each CNCF GB member CAN NOMINATION ONLY TWO PEOPLE MAXIMUM, where only one of them can come from your company (the other candidate can come from anywhere). See CNCF Charter Section 6(e) for full election process details: https://www.cncf.io/about/charter

We will also discuss this at the next TOC meeting on Nov 6th regarding the process if the community has any questions.

Thanks!

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

Totally agree that it's a bit confusing at first, but on the nomination point:

"Each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate" refers to the previous clause which says "The TOC shall be composed of nine (9) TOC members: six (6) elected by the Governing Board, one (1) selected by the End User TAB and two (2) elected by the initial seven TOC members."

So, for the election of the 6 GB-appointed TOC members, each person on the GB may nominate up to two people, with at most one from their company, and then vote.

For the election for the end user-appointed TOC member, each company in the end user community can nominate and vote.

And then when the TOC has an election to reappoint or replace Quinton in March, the 7 non-TOC-appointed members of the TOC (meaning everyone but Quinton and Brian) will do the nominating and voting. We updated https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md to state whether they were GB-appointed, TOC-appointed, or end user-appointed: https://github.com/cncf/toc/commit/c46b1afb333f80fbf1b8e153cb207d069162511c

Hope this helps.

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 5:37 PM Bryan Cantrill <bryan@...> wrote:

Chris,

I'm a little confused about the nomination process. In particular, I can't see where in the charter it describes who many nominate candidates for the TOC. In section 6(e)(ii) it says:

Each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate up to two (2) technical representatives, (from vendors, end users or any other fields), at most one of which may be from their respective company. The nominee(s) must agree to participate prior to being added to the nomination list.

But I cannot see where in the doc it is actually defines who is eligible to nominate a TOC member.  (Our implementation is that it is voting members of the governing board who are permitted to nominate, but why wouldn't the charter say that if that's the intent?)  I am trying to recall our chartering discussions, and I seem to recall that one of the advantages of any level of membership was that a member could nominate for the TOC; is that incorrect?  If so, would you mind pointing me to the document that defines the nomination process?

Somewhat similarly: I think it will also be helpful to get clarity about the origins of each member, to clearly delineate the 6 GB-determined members from the 2 TOC-determined members from the 1 end user-determined member.  Which is really a polite way of me saying that between the initial TOC conditions, the resignations, etc., I have lost track of who's who. ;)

          - Bryan

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 2:32 PM Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:

TOC nominations are starting TODAY for the 6 TOC slots that open up in Jan 2019 that are selected by GB members (they can propose UP TO TWO NOMINEES as part of the GB, where you can only nominate up to one candidate from your organization, the other candidate has to be outside your organization): https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md

The seats that open up are:

Jonathan Boulle (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Bryan Cantrill (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Camille Fournier (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Benjamin Hindman (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Ken Owens (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Alexis Richardson (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)

Here's the timeline for the election, we are giving ample time due to the holidays:

Oct 26th: Nominations Open (TODAY)
Nov 26th: Nominations Close
Nov 27th: Qualification Period Opens
Dec 14th: Qualification Period Closes (end of KubeCon Seattle)
Dec 17th: Election Opens
Jan 22nd: Election Closes
Jan 29th: Election Results Posted!

In summary, these nominations are for the 6 slots nominated by the CNCF Governing Board (GB) members. You have to be a CNCF GB member in order to nominate someone. Each CNCF GB member CAN NOMINATION ONLY TWO PEOPLE MAXIMUM, where only one of them can come from your company (the other candidate can come from anywhere). See CNCF Charter Section 6(e) for full election process details: https://www.cncf.io/about/charter

We will also discuss this at the next TOC meeting on Nov 6th regarding the process if the community has any questions.

Thanks!

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

I don't think that that's correct -- or rather, I don't see any grammatical way that "each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate..." can possibly refer to 6(e)(i), which describes the composition of the TOC.  If that's the intent, 6(e)(ii) would read: "each individual (entity or member) eligible to elect a TOC member may nominate..." (emphasis mine).  Again, I believe that our intent when developing the charter was that any member of the CNCF regardless of level would be able to at least nominate members for the TOC.  Moreover, when I look back at the nominations from three years ago, I see nominations from CNCF members from all levels (that is, regardless of membership level) -- and I can't find any document that indicates that the nomination process for that first election would have different nomination entity eligibility than our process now. 

So it is my belief that all CNCF members can participate in nominations -- not merely those who are on the governing board.  Mike, could you weigh in here?  This is highly relevant as it affects our current nomination process.

         - Bryan

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 4:17 PM Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:

Totally agree that it's a bit confusing at first, but on the nomination point:

"Each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate" refers to the previous clause which says "The TOC shall be composed of nine (9) TOC members: six (6) elected by the Governing Board, one (1) selected by the End User TAB and two (2) elected by the initial seven TOC members."

So, for the election of the 6 GB-appointed TOC members, each person on the GB may nominate up to two people, with at most one from their company, and then vote.

For the election for the end user-appointed TOC member, each company in the end user community can nominate and vote.

And then when the TOC has an election to reappoint or replace Quinton in March, the 7 non-TOC-appointed members of the TOC (meaning everyone but Quinton and Brian) will do the nominating and voting. We updated https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md to state whether they were GB-appointed, TOC-appointed, or end user-appointed: https://github.com/cncf/toc/commit/c46b1afb333f80fbf1b8e153cb207d069162511c

Hope this helps.

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 5:37 PM Bryan Cantrill <bryan@...> wrote:

Chris,

I'm a little confused about the nomination process. In particular, I can't see where in the charter it describes who many nominate candidates for the TOC. In section 6(e)(ii) it says:

Each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate up to two (2) technical representatives, (from vendors, end users or any other fields), at most one of which may be from their respective company. The nominee(s) must agree to participate prior to being added to the nomination list.

But I cannot see where in the doc it is actually defines who is eligible to nominate a TOC member.  (Our implementation is that it is voting members of the governing board who are permitted to nominate, but why wouldn't the charter say that if that's the intent?)  I am trying to recall our chartering discussions, and I seem to recall that one of the advantages of any level of membership was that a member could nominate for the TOC; is that incorrect?  If so, would you mind pointing me to the document that defines the nomination process?

Somewhat similarly: I think it will also be helpful to get clarity about the origins of each member, to clearly delineate the 6 GB-determined members from the 2 TOC-determined members from the 1 end user-determined member.  Which is really a polite way of me saying that between the initial TOC conditions, the resignations, etc., I have lost track of who's who. ;)

          - Bryan

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 2:32 PM Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:

TOC nominations are starting TODAY for the 6 TOC slots that open up in Jan 2019 that are selected by GB members (they can propose UP TO TWO NOMINEES as part of the GB, where you can only nominate up to one candidate from your organization, the other candidate has to be outside your organization): https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md

The seats that open up are:

Jonathan Boulle (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Bryan Cantrill (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Camille Fournier (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Benjamin Hindman (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Ken Owens (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Alexis Richardson (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)

Here's the timeline for the election, we are giving ample time due to the holidays:

Oct 26th: Nominations Open (TODAY)
Nov 26th: Nominations Close
Nov 27th: Qualification Period Opens
Dec 14th: Qualification Period Closes (end of KubeCon Seattle)
Dec 17th: Election Opens
Jan 22nd: Election Closes
Jan 29th: Election Results Posted!

In summary, these nominations are for the 6 slots nominated by the CNCF Governing Board (GB) members. You have to be a CNCF GB member in order to nominate someone. Each CNCF GB member CAN NOMINATION ONLY TWO PEOPLE MAXIMUM, where only one of them can come from your company (the other candidate can come from anywhere). See CNCF Charter Section 6(e) for full election process details: https://www.cncf.io/about/charter

We will also discuss this at the next TOC meeting on Nov 6th regarding the process if the community has any questions.

Thanks!

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

There are some more details here, such as which TOC members were elected by which group:

https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 4:42 PM Bryan Cantrill <bryan@...> wrote:

I don't think that that's correct -- or rather, I don't see any grammatical way that "each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate..." can possibly refer to 6(e)(i), which describes the composition of the TOC.  If that's the intent, 6(e)(ii) would read: "each individual (entity or member) eligible to elect a TOC member may nominate..." (emphasis mine).  Again, I believe that our intent when developing the charter was that any member of the CNCF regardless of level would be able to at least nominate members for the TOC.  Moreover, when I look back at the nominations from three years ago, I see nominations from CNCF members from all levels (that is, regardless of membership level) -- and I can't find any document that indicates that the nomination process for that first election would have different nomination entity eligibility than our process now. 

So it is my belief that all CNCF members can participate in nominations -- not merely those who are on the governing board.  Mike, could you weigh in here?  This is highly relevant as it affects our current nomination process.

         - Bryan

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 4:17 PM Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:

Totally agree that it's a bit confusing at first, but on the nomination point:

"Each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate" refers to the previous clause which says "The TOC shall be composed of nine (9) TOC members: six (6) elected by the Governing Board, one (1) selected by the End User TAB and two (2) elected by the initial seven TOC members."

So, for the election of the 6 GB-appointed TOC members, each person on the GB may nominate up to two people, with at most one from their company, and then vote.

For the election for the end user-appointed TOC member, each company in the end user community can nominate and vote.

And then when the TOC has an election to reappoint or replace Quinton in March, the 7 non-TOC-appointed members of the TOC (meaning everyone but Quinton and Brian) will do the nominating and voting. We updated https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md to state whether they were GB-appointed, TOC-appointed, or end user-appointed: https://github.com/cncf/toc/commit/c46b1afb333f80fbf1b8e153cb207d069162511c

Hope this helps.

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 5:37 PM Bryan Cantrill <bryan@...> wrote:

Chris,

I'm a little confused about the nomination process. In particular, I can't see where in the charter it describes who many nominate candidates for the TOC. In section 6(e)(ii) it says:

Each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate up to two (2) technical representatives, (from vendors, end users or any other fields), at most one of which may be from their respective company. The nominee(s) must agree to participate prior to being added to the nomination list.

But I cannot see where in the doc it is actually defines who is eligible to nominate a TOC member.  (Our implementation is that it is voting members of the governing board who are permitted to nominate, but why wouldn't the charter say that if that's the intent?)  I am trying to recall our chartering discussions, and I seem to recall that one of the advantages of any level of membership was that a member could nominate for the TOC; is that incorrect?  If so, would you mind pointing me to the document that defines the nomination process?

Somewhat similarly: I think it will also be helpful to get clarity about the origins of each member, to clearly delineate the 6 GB-determined members from the 2 TOC-determined members from the 1 end user-determined member.  Which is really a polite way of me saying that between the initial TOC conditions, the resignations, etc., I have lost track of who's who. ;)

          - Bryan

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 2:32 PM Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:

TOC nominations are starting TODAY for the 6 TOC slots that open up in Jan 2019 that are selected by GB members (they can propose UP TO TWO NOMINEES as part of the GB, where you can only nominate up to one candidate from your organization, the other candidate has to be outside your organization): https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md

The seats that open up are:

Jonathan Boulle (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Bryan Cantrill (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Camille Fournier (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Benjamin Hindman (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Ken Owens (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Alexis Richardson (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)

Here's the timeline for the election, we are giving ample time due to the holidays:

Oct 26th: Nominations Open (TODAY)
Nov 26th: Nominations Close
Nov 27th: Qualification Period Opens
Dec 14th: Qualification Period Closes (end of KubeCon Seattle)
Dec 17th: Election Opens
Jan 22nd: Election Closes
Jan 29th: Election Results Posted!

In summary, these nominations are for the 6 slots nominated by the CNCF Governing Board (GB) members. You have to be a CNCF GB member in order to nominate someone. Each CNCF GB member CAN NOMINATION ONLY TWO PEOPLE MAXIMUM, where only one of them can come from your company (the other candidate can come from anywhere). See CNCF Charter Section 6(e) for full election process details: https://www.cncf.io/about/charter

We will also discuss this at the next TOC meeting on Nov 6th regarding the process if the community has any questions.

Thanks!

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

Bryan, you’re correct that three years ago all CNCF members participated in the nomination process. Reviewing the meeting minutes, I found the resolution that changed the nomination language. It was never updated in the public version of the charter on the website. I apologize for the error and have fixed this now on the website adding the resolution change to Section 6(e)(ii):

“Nominations: Each CNCF member may nominate up to two (2) technical representatives, (from vendors, end users or any other fields), at most one of which may be from their respective company. The nominee(s) must agree to participate prior to being added to the nomination list.”

We have opened up the nomination process to all CNCF members now and have modified the schedule accordingly to still allow one month of nominations for all members:

Oct 26th: Nominations Open
Nov 30th: Nominations Close
Dec 1st: Qualification Period Opens
Dec 14th: Qualification Period Closes (end of KubeCon Seattle)
Dec 17th: Election Opens
Jan 22nd: Election Closes
Jan 29th: Election Results Posted

Thanks, I've updated things here also: https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 8:10 PM Brian Grant <briangrant@...> wrote:

There are some more details here, such as which TOC members were elected by which group:

https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 4:42 PM Bryan Cantrill <bryan@...> wrote:

I don't think that that's correct -- or rather, I don't see any grammatical way that "each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate..." can possibly refer to 6(e)(i), which describes the composition of the TOC.  If that's the intent, 6(e)(ii) would read: "each individual (entity or member) eligible to elect a TOC member may nominate..." (emphasis mine).  Again, I believe that our intent when developing the charter was that any member of the CNCF regardless of level would be able to at least nominate members for the TOC.  Moreover, when I look back at the nominations from three years ago, I see nominations from CNCF members from all levels (that is, regardless of membership level) -- and I can't find any document that indicates that the nomination process for that first election would have different nomination entity eligibility than our process now. 

So it is my belief that all CNCF members can participate in nominations -- not merely those who are on the governing board.  Mike, could you weigh in here?  This is highly relevant as it affects our current nomination process.

         - Bryan

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 4:17 PM Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:

Totally agree that it's a bit confusing at first, but on the nomination point:

"Each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate" refers to the previous clause which says "The TOC shall be composed of nine (9) TOC members: six (6) elected by the Governing Board, one (1) selected by the End User TAB and two (2) elected by the initial seven TOC members."

So, for the election of the 6 GB-appointed TOC members, each person on the GB may nominate up to two people, with at most one from their company, and then vote.

For the election for the end user-appointed TOC member, each company in the end user community can nominate and vote.

And then when the TOC has an election to reappoint or replace Quinton in March, the 7 non-TOC-appointed members of the TOC (meaning everyone but Quinton and Brian) will do the nominating and voting. We updated https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md to state whether they were GB-appointed, TOC-appointed, or end user-appointed: https://github.com/cncf/toc/commit/c46b1afb333f80fbf1b8e153cb207d069162511c

Hope this helps.

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 5:37 PM Bryan Cantrill <bryan@...> wrote:

Chris,

I'm a little confused about the nomination process. In particular, I can't see where in the charter it describes who many nominate candidates for the TOC. In section 6(e)(ii) it says:

Each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate up to two (2) technical representatives, (from vendors, end users or any other fields), at most one of which may be from their respective company. The nominee(s) must agree to participate prior to being added to the nomination list.

But I cannot see where in the doc it is actually defines who is eligible to nominate a TOC member.  (Our implementation is that it is voting members of the governing board who are permitted to nominate, but why wouldn't the charter say that if that's the intent?)  I am trying to recall our chartering discussions, and I seem to recall that one of the advantages of any level of membership was that a member could nominate for the TOC; is that incorrect?  If so, would you mind pointing me to the document that defines the nomination process?

Somewhat similarly: I think it will also be helpful to get clarity about the origins of each member, to clearly delineate the 6 GB-determined members from the 2 TOC-determined members from the 1 end user-determined member.  Which is really a polite way of me saying that between the initial TOC conditions, the resignations, etc., I have lost track of who's who. ;)

          - Bryan

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 2:32 PM Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:

TOC nominations are starting TODAY for the 6 TOC slots that open up in Jan 2019 that are selected by GB members (they can propose UP TO TWO NOMINEES as part of the GB, where you can only nominate up to one candidate from your organization, the other candidate has to be outside your organization): https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md

The seats that open up are:

Jonathan Boulle (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Bryan Cantrill (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Camille Fournier (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Benjamin Hindman (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Ken Owens (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Alexis Richardson (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)

Here's the timeline for the election, we are giving ample time due to the holidays:

Oct 26th: Nominations Open (TODAY)
Nov 26th: Nominations Close
Nov 27th: Qualification Period Opens
Dec 14th: Qualification Period Closes (end of KubeCon Seattle)
Dec 17th: Election Opens
Jan 22nd: Election Closes
Jan 29th: Election Results Posted!

In summary, these nominations are for the 6 slots nominated by the CNCF Governing Board (GB) members. You have to be a CNCF GB member in order to nominate someone. Each CNCF GB member CAN NOMINATION ONLY TWO PEOPLE MAXIMUM, where only one of them can come from your company (the other candidate can come from anywhere). See CNCF Charter Section 6(e) for full election process details: https://www.cncf.io/about/charter

We will also discuss this at the next TOC meeting on Nov 6th regarding the process if the community has any questions.

Thanks!

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

Thanks Chris

Where is the canonical version of the charter, and it’s change history?  Is it in GitHub somewhere? I can’t seem to find it.

Thanks

Q

From: <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of Bryan Cantrill <bryan@...>
Date: Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 08:53
To: Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...>
Cc: Brian Grant <briangrant@...>, CNCF TOC <cncf-toc@...>, Michael Dolan <mdolan@...>
Subject: Re: [cncf-toc] FYI: TOC Election (Jan 2019)

Chris,

Thanks for the quick resolution, and for communicating it to promptly to CNCF members!

         - Bryan

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 6:17 PM Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:

Bryan, you’re correct that three years ago all CNCF members participated in the nomination process. Reviewing the meeting minutes, I found the resolution that changed the nomination language. It was never updated in the public version of the charter on the website. I apologize for the error and have fixed this now on the website adding the resolution change to Section 6(e)(ii):

“Nominations: Each CNCF member may nominate up to two (2) technical representatives, (from vendors, end users or any other fields), at most one of which may be from their respective company. The nominee(s) must agree to participate prior to being added to the nomination list.”

We have opened up the nomination process to all CNCF members now and have modified the schedule accordingly to still allow one month of nominations for all members:

Oct 26th: Nominations Open
Nov 30th: Nominations Close
Dec 1st: Qualification Period Opens
Dec 14th: Qualification Period Closes (end of KubeCon Seattle)
Dec 17th: Election Opens
Jan 22nd: Election Closes
Jan 29th: Election Results Posted

Thanks, I've updated things here also: https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 8:10 PM Brian Grant <briangrant@...> wrote:

There are some more details here, such as which TOC members were elected by which group:

https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 4:42 PM Bryan Cantrill <bryan@...> wrote:

I don't think that that's correct -- or rather, I don't see any grammatical way that "each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate..." can possibly refer to 6(e)(i), which describes the composition of the TOC.  If that's the intent, 6(e)(ii) would read: "each individual (entity or member) eligible to elect a TOC member may nominate..." (emphasis mine).  Again, I believe that our intent when developing the charter was that any member of the CNCF regardless of level would be able to at least nominate members for the TOC.  Moreover, when I look back at the nominations from three years ago, I see nominations from CNCF members from all levels (that is, regardless of membership level) -- and I can't find any document that indicates that the nomination process for that first election would have different nomination entity eligibility than our process now. 

So it is my belief that all CNCF members can participate in nominations -- not merely those who are on the governing board.  Mike, could you weigh in here?  This is highly relevant as it affects our current nomination process.

         - Bryan

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 4:17 PM Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:

Totally agree that it's a bit confusing at first, but on the nomination point:

"Each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate" refers to the previous clause which says "The TOC shall be composed of nine (9) TOC members: six (6) elected by the Governing Board, one (1) selected by the End User TAB and two (2) elected by the initial seven TOC members."

So, for the election of the 6 GB-appointed TOC members, each person on the GB may nominate up to two people, with at most one from their company, and then vote.

For the election for the end user-appointed TOC member, each company in the end user community can nominate and vote.

And then when the TOC has an election to reappoint or replace Quinton in March, the 7 non-TOC-appointed members of the TOC (meaning everyone but Quinton and Brian) will do the nominating and voting. We updated https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md to state whether they were GB-appointed, TOC-appointed, or end user-appointed: https://github.com/cncf/toc/commit/c46b1afb333f80fbf1b8e153cb207d069162511c

Hope this helps.

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 5:37 PM Bryan Cantrill <bryan@...> wrote:

Chris,

I'm a little confused about the nomination process. In particular, I can't see where in the charter it describes who many nominate candidates for the TOC. In section 6(e)(ii) it says:

Each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate up to two (2) technical representatives, (from vendors, end users or any other fields), at most one of which may be from their respective company. The nominee(s) must agree to participate prior to being added to the nomination list.

But I cannot see where in the doc it is actually defines who is eligible to nominate a TOC member.  (Our implementation is that it is voting members of the governing board who are permitted to nominate, but why wouldn't the charter say that if that's the intent?)  I am trying to recall our chartering discussions, and I seem to recall that one of the advantages of any level of membership was that a member could nominate for the TOC; is that incorrect?  If so, would you mind pointing me to the document that defines the nomination process?

Somewhat similarly: I think it will also be helpful to get clarity about the origins of each member, to clearly delineate the 6 GB-determined members from the 2 TOC-determined members from the 1 end user-determined member.  Which is really a polite way of me saying that between the initial TOC conditions, the resignations, etc., I have lost track of who's who. ;)

          - Bryan

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 2:32 PM Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:

TOC nominations are starting TODAY for the 6 TOC slots that open up in Jan 2019 that are selected by GB members (they can propose UP TO TWO NOMINEES as part of the GB, where you can only nominate up to one candidate from your organization, the other candidate has to be outside your organization): https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md

The seats that open up are:

Jonathan Boulle (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Bryan Cantrill (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Camille Fournier (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Benjamin Hindman (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Ken Owens (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Alexis Richardson (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)

Here's the timeline for the election, we are giving ample time due to the holidays:

Oct 26th: Nominations Open (TODAY)
Nov 26th: Nominations Close
Nov 27th: Qualification Period Opens
Dec 14th: Qualification Period Closes (end of KubeCon Seattle)
Dec 17th: Election Opens
Jan 22nd: Election Closes
Jan 29th: Election Results Posted!

In summary, these nominations are for the 6 slots nominated by the CNCF Governing Board (GB) members. You have to be a CNCF GB member in order to nominate someone. Each CNCF GB member CAN NOMINATION ONLY TWO PEOPLE MAXIMUM, where only one of them can come from your company (the other candidate can come from anywhere). See CNCF Charter Section 6(e) for full election process details: https://www.cncf.io/about/charter

We will also discuss this at the next TOC meeting on Nov 6th regarding the process if the community has any questions.

Thanks!

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

I think it’s important that we have a public record of historical changes to the charter (like the one you made below, but I’m sure there are others that came before it).

Could you make that historical record available somewhere?  For the future, GitHub seems like a fine plan, as you say.

Q

From: <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...>
Date: Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 12:56
To: Quinton Hoole <quinton.hoole@...>
Cc: Bryan Cantrill <bryan@...>, Brian Grant <briangrant@...>, CNCF TOC <cncf-toc@...>, Mike Dolan <mdolan@...>
Subject: Re: [cncf-toc] FYI: TOC Election (Jan 2019)

It's updated on the website now but lives in a word doc.

We are moving the charter to GitHub to make our lives easier and that will be the canonical source moving forward.

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:51 PM Quinton Hoole <quinton.hoole@...> wrote:

Thanks Chris

Where is the canonical version of the charter, and it’s change history?  Is it in GitHub somewhere? I can’t seem to find it.

Thanks

Q

From: <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of Bryan Cantrill <bryan@...>
Date: Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 08:53
To: Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...>
Cc: Brian Grant <briangrant@...>, CNCF TOC <cncf-toc@...>, Michael Dolan <mdolan@...>
Subject: Re: [cncf-toc] FYI: TOC Election (Jan 2019)

Chris,

Thanks for the quick resolution, and for communicating it to promptly to CNCF members!

         - Bryan

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 6:17 PM Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:

Bryan, you’re correct that three years ago all CNCF members participated in the nomination process. Reviewing the meeting minutes, I found the resolution that changed the nomination language. It was never updated in the public version of the charter on the website. I apologize for the error and have fixed this now on the website adding the resolution change to Section 6(e)(ii):

“Nominations: Each CNCF member may nominate up to two (2) technical representatives, (from vendors, end users or any other fields), at most one of which may be from their respective company. The nominee(s) must agree to participate prior to being added to the nomination list.”

We have opened up the nomination process to all CNCF members now and have modified the schedule accordingly to still allow one month of nominations for all members:

Oct 26th: Nominations Open
Nov 30th: Nominations Close
Dec 1st: Qualification Period Opens
Dec 14th: Qualification Period Closes (end of KubeCon Seattle)
Dec 17th: Election Opens
Jan 22nd: Election Closes
Jan 29th: Election Results Posted

Thanks, I've updated things here also: https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 8:10 PM Brian Grant <briangrant@...> wrote:

There are some more details here, such as which TOC members were elected by which group:

https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 4:42 PM Bryan Cantrill <bryan@...> wrote:

I don't think that that's correct -- or rather, I don't see any grammatical way that "each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate..." can possibly refer to 6(e)(i), which describes the composition of the TOC.  If that's the intent, 6(e)(ii) would read: "each individual (entity or member) eligible to elect a TOC member may nominate..." (emphasis mine).  Again, I believe that our intent when developing the charter was that any member of the CNCF regardless of level would be able to at least nominate members for the TOC.  Moreover, when I look back at the nominations from three years ago, I see nominations from CNCF members from all levels (that is, regardless of membership level) -- and I can't find any document that indicates that the nomination process for that first election would have different nomination entity eligibility than our process now. 

So it is my belief that all CNCF members can participate in nominations -- not merely those who are on the governing board.  Mike, could you weigh in here?  This is highly relevant as it affects our current nomination process.

         - Bryan

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 4:17 PM Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:

Totally agree that it's a bit confusing at first, but on the nomination point:

"Each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate" refers to the previous clause which says "The TOC shall be composed of nine (9) TOC members: six (6) elected by the Governing Board, one (1) selected by the End User TAB and two (2) elected by the initial seven TOC members."

So, for the election of the 6 GB-appointed TOC members, each person on the GB may nominate up to two people, with at most one from their company, and then vote.

For the election for the end user-appointed TOC member, each company in the end user community can nominate and vote.

And then when the TOC has an election to reappoint or replace Quinton in March, the 7 non-TOC-appointed members of the TOC (meaning everyone but Quinton and Brian) will do the nominating and voting. We updated https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md to state whether they were GB-appointed, TOC-appointed, or end user-appointed: https://github.com/cncf/toc/commit/c46b1afb333f80fbf1b8e153cb207d069162511c

Hope this helps.

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 5:37 PM Bryan Cantrill <bryan@...> wrote:

Chris,

I'm a little confused about the nomination process. In particular, I can't see where in the charter it describes who many nominate candidates for the TOC. In section 6(e)(ii) it says:

Each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate up to two (2) technical representatives, (from vendors, end users or any other fields), at most one of which may be from their respective company. The nominee(s) must agree to participate prior to being added to the nomination list.

But I cannot see where in the doc it is actually defines who is eligible to nominate a TOC member.  (Our implementation is that it is voting members of the governing board who are permitted to nominate, but why wouldn't the charter say that if that's the intent?)  I am trying to recall our chartering discussions, and I seem to recall that one of the advantages of any level of membership was that a member could nominate for the TOC; is that incorrect?  If so, would you mind pointing me to the document that defines the nomination process?

Somewhat similarly: I think it will also be helpful to get clarity about the origins of each member, to clearly delineate the 6 GB-determined members from the 2 TOC-determined members from the 1 end user-determined member.  Which is really a polite way of me saying that between the initial TOC conditions, the resignations, etc., I have lost track of who's who. ;)

          - Bryan

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 2:32 PM Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:

TOC nominations are starting TODAY for the 6 TOC slots that open up in Jan 2019 that are selected by GB members (they can propose UP TO TWO NOMINEES as part of the GB, where you can only nominate up to one candidate from your organization, the other candidate has to be outside your organization): https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md

The seats that open up are:

Jonathan Boulle (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Bryan Cantrill (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Camille Fournier (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Benjamin Hindman (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Ken Owens (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Alexis Richardson (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)

Here's the timeline for the election, we are giving ample time due to the holidays:

Oct 26th: Nominations Open (TODAY)
Nov 26th: Nominations Close
Nov 27th: Qualification Period Opens
Dec 14th: Qualification Period Closes (end of KubeCon Seattle)
Dec 17th: Election Opens
Jan 22nd: Election Closes
Jan 29th: Election Results Posted!

In summary, these nominations are for the 6 slots nominated by the CNCF Governing Board (GB) members. You have to be a CNCF GB member in order to nominate someone. Each CNCF GB member CAN NOMINATION ONLY TWO PEOPLE MAXIMUM, where only one of them can come from your company (the other candidate can come from anywhere). See CNCF Charter Section 6(e) for full election process details: https://www.cncf.io/about/charter

We will also discuss this at the next TOC meeting on Nov 6th regarding the process if the community has any questions.

Thanks!

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

Thanks Chris

I don’t think that there’s particular urgency in manually stitching together git commits, but more importantly, according to the Charter:

18. Amendments

This charter may be amended by a two-thirds vote (excluding abstentions) of all Governing Board members.

So presumably the number of changes to the Charter over time has therefore been very small, and each one is accompanied by a vote by the GB, of which we should have a written record.

In the absence of a proper change log, could we at least in the mean time publish a list of all changes that were voted on by the GB, and any additional changes that were not voted on.

Thanks

Q

From: Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...>
Date: Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 13:52
To: Quinton Hoole <quinton.hoole@...>
Cc: Bryan Cantrill <bryan@...>, Brian Grant <briangrant@...>, CNCF TOC <cncf-toc@...>, Mike Dolan <mdolan@...>
Subject: Re: [cncf-toc] FYI: TOC Election (Jan 2019)

I get your point, historically it's been a word doc because that's how lawyers love to craft these things initially.

We put the charter now on GitHub as the canonical source: https://github.com/cncf/foundation/blob/master/charter.md

I'll have my team go stitch together git commits representing the changes over time in GitHub, but will take a bit of time.

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 3:07 PM Quinton Hoole <quinton.hoole@...> wrote:

I think it’s important that we have a public record of historical changes to the charter (like the one you made below, but I’m sure there are others that came before it).

Could you make that historical record available somewhere?  For the future, GitHub seems like a fine plan, as you say.

Q

From: <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...>
Date: Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 12:56
To: Quinton Hoole <quinton.hoole@...>
Cc: Bryan Cantrill <bryan@...>, Brian Grant <briangrant@...>, CNCF TOC <cncf-toc@...>, Mike Dolan <mdolan@...>
Subject: Re: [cncf-toc] FYI: TOC Election (Jan 2019)

It's updated on the website now but lives in a word doc.

We are moving the charter to GitHub to make our lives easier and that will be the canonical source moving forward.

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:51 PM Quinton Hoole <quinton.hoole@...> wrote:

Thanks Chris

Where is the canonical version of the charter, and it’s change history?  Is it in GitHub somewhere? I can’t seem to find it.

Thanks

Q

From: <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of Bryan Cantrill <bryan@...>
Date: Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 08:53
To: Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...>
Cc: Brian Grant <briangrant@...>, CNCF TOC <cncf-toc@...>, Michael Dolan <mdolan@...>
Subject: Re: [cncf-toc] FYI: TOC Election (Jan 2019)

Chris,

Thanks for the quick resolution, and for communicating it to promptly to CNCF members!

         - Bryan

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 6:17 PM Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:

Bryan, you’re correct that three years ago all CNCF members participated in the nomination process. Reviewing the meeting minutes, I found the resolution that changed the nomination language. It was never updated in the public version of the charter on the website. I apologize for the error and have fixed this now on the website adding the resolution change to Section 6(e)(ii):

“Nominations: Each CNCF member may nominate up to two (2) technical representatives, (from vendors, end users or any other fields), at most one of which may be from their respective company. The nominee(s) must agree to participate prior to being added to the nomination list.”

We have opened up the nomination process to all CNCF members now and have modified the schedule accordingly to still allow one month of nominations for all members:

Oct 26th: Nominations Open
Nov 30th: Nominations Close
Dec 1st: Qualification Period Opens
Dec 14th: Qualification Period Closes (end of KubeCon Seattle)
Dec 17th: Election Opens
Jan 22nd: Election Closes
Jan 29th: Election Results Posted

Thanks, I've updated things here also: https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 8:10 PM Brian Grant <briangrant@...> wrote:

There are some more details here, such as which TOC members were elected by which group:

https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 4:42 PM Bryan Cantrill <bryan@...> wrote:

I don't think that that's correct -- or rather, I don't see any grammatical way that "each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate..." can possibly refer to 6(e)(i), which describes the composition of the TOC.  If that's the intent, 6(e)(ii) would read: "each individual (entity or member) eligible to elect a TOC member may nominate..." (emphasis mine).  Again, I believe that our intent when developing the charter was that any member of the CNCF regardless of level would be able to at least nominate members for the TOC.  Moreover, when I look back at the nominations from three years ago, I see nominations from CNCF members from all levels (that is, regardless of membership level) -- and I can't find any document that indicates that the nomination process for that first election would have different nomination entity eligibility than our process now. 

So it is my belief that all CNCF members can participate in nominations -- not merely those who are on the governing board.  Mike, could you weigh in here?  This is highly relevant as it affects our current nomination process.

         - Bryan

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 4:17 PM Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:

Totally agree that it's a bit confusing at first, but on the nomination point:

"Each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate" refers to the previous clause which says "The TOC shall be composed of nine (9) TOC members: six (6) elected by the Governing Board, one (1) selected by the End User TAB and two (2) elected by the initial seven TOC members."

So, for the election of the 6 GB-appointed TOC members, each person on the GB may nominate up to two people, with at most one from their company, and then vote.

For the election for the end user-appointed TOC member, each company in the end user community can nominate and vote.

And then when the TOC has an election to reappoint or replace Quinton in March, the 7 non-TOC-appointed members of the TOC (meaning everyone but Quinton and Brian) will do the nominating and voting. We updated https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md to state whether they were GB-appointed, TOC-appointed, or end user-appointed: https://github.com/cncf/toc/commit/c46b1afb333f80fbf1b8e153cb207d069162511c

Hope this helps.

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 5:37 PM Bryan Cantrill <bryan@...> wrote:

Chris,

I'm a little confused about the nomination process. In particular, I can't see where in the charter it describes who many nominate candidates for the TOC. In section 6(e)(ii) it says:

Each individual (entity or member) eligible to nominate a TOC member may nominate up to two (2) technical representatives, (from vendors, end users or any other fields), at most one of which may be from their respective company. The nominee(s) must agree to participate prior to being added to the nomination list.

But I cannot see where in the doc it is actually defines who is eligible to nominate a TOC member.  (Our implementation is that it is voting members of the governing board who are permitted to nominate, but why wouldn't the charter say that if that's the intent?)  I am trying to recall our chartering discussions, and I seem to recall that one of the advantages of any level of membership was that a member could nominate for the TOC; is that incorrect?  If so, would you mind pointing me to the document that defines the nomination process?

Somewhat similarly: I think it will also be helpful to get clarity about the origins of each member, to clearly delineate the 6 GB-determined members from the 2 TOC-determined members from the 1 end user-determined member.  Which is really a polite way of me saying that between the initial TOC conditions, the resignations, etc., I have lost track of who's who. ;)

          - Bryan

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 2:32 PM Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:

TOC nominations are starting TODAY for the 6 TOC slots that open up in Jan 2019 that are selected by GB members (they can propose UP TO TWO NOMINEES as part of the GB, where you can only nominate up to one candidate from your organization, the other candidate has to be outside your organization): https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/master/process/election-schedule.md

The seats that open up are:

Jonathan Boulle (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Bryan Cantrill (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Camille Fournier (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Benjamin Hindman (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Ken Owens (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)
Alexis Richardson (term: 3 years - start date: 1/29/2016)

Here's the timeline for the election, we are giving ample time due to the holidays:

Oct 26th: Nominations Open (TODAY)
Nov 26th: Nominations Close
Nov 27th: Qualification Period Opens
Dec 14th: Qualification Period Closes (end of KubeCon Seattle)
Dec 17th: Election Opens
Jan 22nd: Election Closes
Jan 29th: Election Results Posted!

In summary, these nominations are for the 6 slots nominated by the CNCF Governing Board (GB) members. You have to be a CNCF GB member in order to nominate someone. Each CNCF GB member CAN NOMINATION ONLY TWO PEOPLE MAXIMUM, where only one of them can come from your company (the other candidate can come from anywhere). See CNCF Charter Section 6(e) for full election process details: https://www.cncf.io/about/charter

We will also discuss this at the next TOC meeting on Nov 6th regarding the process if the community has any questions.

Thanks!

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719

--

Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719