Date   

Re: Proposal TAG Sustainability

Vincent Caldeira
 

In addition to Huamin's recommendations, I would suggest some initial focus about propagating standards for observability and measurement, especially in the area of carbon emissions where having an implementation of OpenTracing for emissions could go a long way to:

- Standardise measurement of emissions data across multiple deployment models and infrastructure (therefore enabling data comparability)
- Help to build trust in the data supply chain
- Help validate that whatever initiative to reduce emissions is actually working

I currently lead the Data Commons group at OS-Climate and one key issue we have been discussing with regulators and industry groups is the building standardisation and trust in the data used in various studies, industry work groups as well as climate risk models to take evidence-based decisions on climate matters. We actually realised it is likely not possible to build an aggregated view of data that would make sense, unless through an open source approach we are able to distribute a common capability for data observability that could be implemented by default in various technical stacks (e.g. Green Kubernetes) and would enable monitoring and aggregation across. 


Re: Questions on OpenEBS Incubation Proposal

Davanum Srinivas
 

Xing,

Thanks for the update and summary of questions.

#1 - looks like CNCF staff will take care of this from the service desk ticket and we should be good to go
#2 - similar to #1 as well.
#3 - many thanks to Liz for already answering with precedent, Here's how the opentelemetry choose to do - https://opentelemetry.io/status/ i would also +1 efforts to deprecate / migrate to alternatives / wrap up things as experiments wrap up and there is not much adoption after a period of time.

Hoping other TOC members chime in as well with their thoughts and ideas as well.

-- Dims


On Fri, Apr 8, 2022 at 5:04 AM Liz Rice <liz@...> wrote:
For point 3, we've had similar situations in other projects - OpenTelemetry comes to mind - with different levels of maturity in sub-components / sub-projects. What previous incarnations of the TOC required in these cases was that the level of maturity is clearly signposted to users. Another example: Kubernetes has features in alpha / beta state even though the project as a whole is graduated. We want to encourage projects to innovate, and innovation inevitably means that the new bits are immature.

Great example here of how TOC will need to apply judgement about whether, overall, the level of adoption is sufficient. (I'm also wondering whether the cStor option is widely adopted, or whether, given the performance issues mentioned, it might make sense to encourage users to move to another option so that this approach could be archived?) 

On Thu, Apr 7, 2022 at 11:53 PM Xing Yang <xingyang105@...> wrote:

Hello all,

 

We brought this up during the TAG Storage update at this week's TOC session and were asked to start this discussion in the mailing list.

 

This is regarding OpenEBS incubation proposal (https://github.com/cncf/toc/pull/506, currently sandbox). We have been discussing with the OpenEBS team about next steps. Erin Boyd, our TOC liaison, also attended the last TAG Storage meeting when OpenEBS gave a project update. She suggested we bring this up at the TOC meeting.

 

There are mainly three issues:

 

1. Maya branding: OpenEBS has a storage engine called “MayaStor”. Previously there was a concern that the repo includes “Maya” in the name which was part of the MayaData company name.  Since then MayaData was acquired by DataCore. Maya branding is dropped by DataCore. DataCore is happy to donate the Maya branding to CNCF.

Action Item: OpenEBS team will raise a service desk ticket for CNCF to use Maya branding.

 

2. Another issue is regarding ZFS code used in cStor code base. This was a concern previously raised. Now the user space ZFS code has been moved out of cStor code repo, but cStore still has dependencies on an external repo due to the ZFS license issues. We need CNCF to review this again.

 

3. Question to TOC on how to evaluate various engines with different maturity levels when evaluating OpenEBS Incubation Proposal.

There are 2 types of storage in OpenEBS:

1) Local volumes - this is in good state. Lots of production users. Majority of OpenEBS users are using the local volumes.

2) 3 Replicated volumes engines

    a) Jiva stor: Forked from Longhorn. Stable. Just maintain, not add new features. Jiva is not the focus of the roadmap.

    b) cStor: Stable. Slow improvement. Performance is the biggest concern. cStor also has the ZFS challenge mentioned earlier.

    c) Mayastor: It is GA now. Most dev effort is spent here. However we learned from the presentation at TAG Storage that the first production user is only going live this month. For incubation, there is a requirement for 3 production use cases for reference.

 

The question to TOC is how to evaluate a project with various engines with different maturity levels when evaluating OpenEBS Incubation Proposal. If we are evaluating all of them, some may not pass incubation criteria for various reasons.

 

Thanks,

TAG Storage leads



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Re: CubeFS (formerly ChubaoFS) Incubation Proposal - Public Comment

YhJIANG
 

+1 NB


Re: Questions on OpenEBS Incubation Proposal

Liz Rice
 

For point 3, we've had similar situations in other projects - OpenTelemetry comes to mind - with different levels of maturity in sub-components / sub-projects. What previous incarnations of the TOC required in these cases was that the level of maturity is clearly signposted to users. Another example: Kubernetes has features in alpha / beta state even though the project as a whole is graduated. We want to encourage projects to innovate, and innovation inevitably means that the new bits are immature.

Great example here of how TOC will need to apply judgement about whether, overall, the level of adoption is sufficient. (I'm also wondering whether the cStor option is widely adopted, or whether, given the performance issues mentioned, it might make sense to encourage users to move to another option so that this approach could be archived?) 


On Thu, Apr 7, 2022 at 11:53 PM Xing Yang <xingyang105@...> wrote:

Hello all,

 

We brought this up during the TAG Storage update at this week's TOC session and were asked to start this discussion in the mailing list.

 

This is regarding OpenEBS incubation proposal (https://github.com/cncf/toc/pull/506, currently sandbox). We have been discussing with the OpenEBS team about next steps. Erin Boyd, our TOC liaison, also attended the last TAG Storage meeting when OpenEBS gave a project update. She suggested we bring this up at the TOC meeting.

 

There are mainly three issues:

 

1. Maya branding: OpenEBS has a storage engine called “MayaStor”. Previously there was a concern that the repo includes “Maya” in the name which was part of the MayaData company name.  Since then MayaData was acquired by DataCore. Maya branding is dropped by DataCore. DataCore is happy to donate the Maya branding to CNCF.

Action Item: OpenEBS team will raise a service desk ticket for CNCF to use Maya branding.

 

2. Another issue is regarding ZFS code used in cStor code base. This was a concern previously raised. Now the user space ZFS code has been moved out of cStor code repo, but cStore still has dependencies on an external repo due to the ZFS license issues. We need CNCF to review this again.

 

3. Question to TOC on how to evaluate various engines with different maturity levels when evaluating OpenEBS Incubation Proposal.

There are 2 types of storage in OpenEBS:

1) Local volumes - this is in good state. Lots of production users. Majority of OpenEBS users are using the local volumes.

2) 3 Replicated volumes engines

    a) Jiva stor: Forked from Longhorn. Stable. Just maintain, not add new features. Jiva is not the focus of the roadmap.

    b) cStor: Stable. Slow improvement. Performance is the biggest concern. cStor also has the ZFS challenge mentioned earlier.

    c) Mayastor: It is GA now. Most dev effort is spent here. However we learned from the presentation at TAG Storage that the first production user is only going live this month. For incubation, there is a requirement for 3 production use cases for reference.

 

The question to TOC is how to evaluate a project with various engines with different maturity levels when evaluating OpenEBS Incubation Proposal. If we are evaluating all of them, some may not pass incubation criteria for various reasons.

 

Thanks,

TAG Storage leads


Re: CubeFS (formerly ChubaoFS) Incubation Proposal - Public Comment

liqingqiya@...
 

+1 NB


Re: CubeFS (formerly ChubaoFS) Incubation Proposal - Public Comment

hastyjason500@...
 

+1 NB


Re: CubeFS (formerly ChubaoFS) Incubation Proposal - Public Comment

deyitang94@...
 

+1 NB


Re: CubeFS (formerly ChubaoFS) Incubation Proposal - Public Comment

邱超
 

Great Job!


Re: CubeFS (formerly ChubaoFS) Incubation Proposal - Public Comment

wzh07@...
 

+1 Great Job!


Questions on OpenEBS Incubation Proposal

Xing Yang
 

Hello all,

 

We brought this up during the TAG Storage update at this week's TOC session and were asked to start this discussion in the mailing list.

 

This is regarding OpenEBS incubation proposal (https://github.com/cncf/toc/pull/506, currently sandbox). We have been discussing with the OpenEBS team about next steps. Erin Boyd, our TOC liaison, also attended the last TAG Storage meeting when OpenEBS gave a project update. She suggested we bring this up at the TOC meeting.

 

There are mainly three issues:

 

1. Maya branding: OpenEBS has a storage engine called “MayaStor”. Previously there was a concern that the repo includes “Maya” in the name which was part of the MayaData company name.  Since then MayaData was acquired by DataCore. Maya branding is dropped by DataCore. DataCore is happy to donate the Maya branding to CNCF.

Action Item: OpenEBS team will raise a service desk ticket for CNCF to use Maya branding.

 

2. Another issue is regarding ZFS code used in cStor code base. This was a concern previously raised. Now the user space ZFS code has been moved out of cStor code repo, but cStore still has dependencies on an external repo due to the ZFS license issues. We need CNCF to review this again.

 

3. Question to TOC on how to evaluate various engines with different maturity levels when evaluating OpenEBS Incubation Proposal.

There are 2 types of storage in OpenEBS:

1) Local volumes - this is in good state. Lots of production users. Majority of OpenEBS users are using the local volumes.

2) 3 Replicated volumes engines

    a) Jiva stor: Forked from Longhorn. Stable. Just maintain, not add new features. Jiva is not the focus of the roadmap.

    b) cStor: Stable. Slow improvement. Performance is the biggest concern. cStor also has the ZFS challenge mentioned earlier.

    c) Mayastor: It is GA now. Most dev effort is spent here. However we learned from the presentation at TAG Storage that the first production user is only going live this month. For incubation, there is a requirement for 3 production use cases for reference.

 

The question to TOC is how to evaluate a project with various engines with different maturity levels when evaluating OpenEBS Incubation Proposal. If we are evaluating all of them, some may not pass incubation criteria for various reasons.

 

Thanks,

TAG Storage leads


Re: Proposal TAG Sustainability

ayoussef@...
 

I agree with the points Huamin raised, especially on "Incubate technology stacks towards green computing"!

Thanks,
Alaa


Re: [RESULT] Volcano approved for incubation

Zhipeng Huang
 

Congrats for all the hard work !


Re: [RESULT] Volcano approved for incubation

Davanum Srinivas
 

Congrats! Volcano folks!

--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Re: Proposal TAG Sustainability

Max Koerbaecher <max@...>
 

Sorry for the spam, just saw that I skipped Wojtek answer.
I would be absolutely in for that and I'm pretty sure we can sponsor something for this like cold drinks :)
But before that, I would love to have a virtual kick-off assuming that some people can't make it to Valencia, and I would like to include everyone who is interested.

I have created a short form for the interested parties which we will add to the proposal: https://forms.gle/kJRmRa9WtRsn8csV8

Am Do., 7. Apr. 2022 um 15:37 Uhr schrieb Max Koerbaecher <max@...>:

Hello Chris,

thank you for your feedback. 
We addressed this in the proposal as well in the TOC meeting. We don't want to reinvent the wheel, but more over collect and aggregate on the one hand, and being a bridge or accelerator for the different CN projects on the other hand. Working with GSF, as well as other initiatives, will be one core part of the WG.

Best
Max

Am Do., 7. Apr. 2022 um 13:37 Uhr schrieb Chris Lloyd-Jones <chris.lloyd-jones@...>:
Hi folks,
This is my first ever CNCF email, as a newbie - and I wanted to clarify how this works regarding another Linux Foundation project, the Green Software Foundation: Green Software Foundation | GSF

I can see some folks have raised a similar question - some of the items in the vision and responsibilities are clearly different from the GSF, but some overlap.

That might be ok, but flagging now. 

Thanks,
Chris.

Chris Lloyd-Jones | Head of Open Technologies, Office of the CTO 

Calendar booking link 

[ Upcoming OOF – 7 April, 19-20 April, 2-9 May. ]



From: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of Wojtek Cichoń via lists.cncf.io <wojtek=akuity.io@...>
Sent: 07 April 2022 12:17
To: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...>; Max Koerbaecher <max@...>; Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...>
Subject: [External] Re: [cncf-toc] Proposal TAG Sustainability
 
You don't often get email from wojtek=akuity.io@.... Learn why this is important
Sounds great! I'm in! Where do I sign? 😉

In terms of the next steps - I assume that we have to split who does what and we could start by brainstorming ideas on how to answer the questions posed in your 1-3 points (surveys? outreach? etc.)

I thought that if you will be joining KubeCon EU in May we might try to arrange a meeting just to get to know each other. WDYT?
Before that happens, catching up once a month or two weeks would be good.

All the best!
Wojtek Cichoń
Founding Marketing Manager


On Wed Apr 6, 2022, 06:04 PM GMT, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
Max,

+1 to "Environmental Conservation WG" as the name and the initial tasks.

-- Dims

On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 2:01 PM Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:
Hello all,

thank you for having me at the TOC meeting yesterday and for the chance as well as the discussion on our proposal.
As a result of yesterday's discussion I first would like to put a renaming into the room:
"Environmental Conservation WG"

Following the recommendation, we would start as a working group also we see that there are a lot of jobs to be done, to oversight any project is at this time not part of it/too early and therefore not suitable for a TAG. Might change in the future.

Some of the initial task I see:
  • craft a team for the WG (I got already a couple of private messages and notes of interest)
  • scoping the activities - as mentioned in the meeting we see many dimensions, possibilities and ways of acting. an output here can be a kind of roadmap as well as a cloud native environmental impact map (work in this direction is generally done and need some CN spicing)
  • depending on the size of the team as well as the scoped activities, I would like to have the WG being active actually in to three directions
  • 1. towards the CNCF projects - did they worked already on something for improving their environment footprint? what are the problems they see? what is needed to overcome potential issues? etc.
  • 2. towards the enduser - as mentioned a key for this topic is awareness, and the our enduser are one/some of the strongest multiplicators. What are their current state? How OSS can help? Can we include this topic to the CNCF survey?
  • 3. bridging existing foundations and project - there are many initiatives out there, how we can bring them to our community? where we have a common sense? what is difficult for them to grow adoption? Lets learn from each other and be a vehicle for existing implementations/researches etc.
Sorry for the long email. I'm looking forward to your feedback, and your guidance to get the things started :)

Best
Max



Am Fr., 25. März 2022 um 01:33 Uhr schrieb Jaime Magiera <jaimelm@...>:
I’d be interested in contributing to this TAG, whatever the name will be. 

Jaime Magiera
DevOps Engineer Senior
ICPSR

"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea." 
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

On Mar 19, 2022, at 8:06 AM, Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:

Dear TOC,

we would like to propose you a new TAG. 

Sustainability is a growing and important topic and can be done effectively only if everyone delivers their part to it. The data centers' global energy consumption, and therefore the reason for CO2 emission, is around 2%. That maybe doesn't sound a lot but is equivalent to Canada or Germany, and is also bigger than the emissions caused by airplanes. 

At the same time, open source gets relevant momentum and can be found in many system implementations or is the foundation modern systems are built on. That's why we would like to propose you the TAG Sustainability. We as a community can lay the foundation for sustainable software, sustainable open source projects and best practices to deliver our part for a positive change in the future.

Please find our proposal here:

We would be more than happy to discuss this with you in the next TOC about the TAG. By questions feel free to reach out to us.

Best regards
Max



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


[RESULT] Volcano approved for incubation

Amye Scavarda Perrin
 


Re: Proposal TAG Sustainability

Chris Lloyd
 

Sounds good to me :) 

Chris Lloyd-Jones | Head of Open Technologies, Office of the CTO 

Calendar booking link 

[ Upcoming OOF – 8 April, 19-20 April, 2-9 May. ]



From: Max Koerbaecher <max@...>
Sent: 07 April 2022 14:37
To: Chris Lloyd-Jones <chris.lloyd-jones@...>
Cc: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...>; Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...>; wojtek@... <wojtek@...>
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [cncf-toc] Proposal TAG Sustainability
 
Hello Chris,

thank you for your feedback. 
We addressed this in the proposal as well in the TOC meeting. We don't want to reinvent the wheel, but more over collect and aggregate on the one hand, and being a bridge or accelerator for the different CN projects on the other hand. Working with GSF, as well as other initiatives, will be one core part of the WG.

Best
Max

Am Do., 7. Apr. 2022 um 13:37 Uhr schrieb Chris Lloyd-Jones <chris.lloyd-jones@...>:
Hi folks,
This is my first ever CNCF email, as a newbie - and I wanted to clarify how this works regarding another Linux Foundation project, the Green Software Foundation: Green Software Foundation | GSF

I can see some folks have raised a similar question - some of the items in the vision and responsibilities are clearly different from the GSF, but some overlap.

That might be ok, but flagging now. 

Thanks,
Chris.

Chris Lloyd-Jones | Head of Open Technologies, Office of the CTO 

Calendar booking link 

[ Upcoming OOF – 7 April, 19-20 April, 2-9 May. ]



From: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of Wojtek Cichoń via lists.cncf.io <wojtek=akuity.io@...>
Sent: 07 April 2022 12:17
To: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...>; Max Koerbaecher <max@...>; Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...>
Subject: [External] Re: [cncf-toc] Proposal TAG Sustainability
 
You don't often get email from wojtek=akuity.io@.... Learn why this is important
Sounds great! I'm in! Where do I sign? 😉

In terms of the next steps - I assume that we have to split who does what and we could start by brainstorming ideas on how to answer the questions posed in your 1-3 points (surveys? outreach? etc.)

I thought that if you will be joining KubeCon EU in May we might try to arrange a meeting just to get to know each other. WDYT?
Before that happens, catching up once a month or two weeks would be good.

All the best!
Wojtek Cichoń
Founding Marketing Manager


On Wed Apr 6, 2022, 06:04 PM GMT, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
Max,

+1 to "Environmental Conservation WG" as the name and the initial tasks.

-- Dims

On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 2:01 PM Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:
Hello all,

thank you for having me at the TOC meeting yesterday and for the chance as well as the discussion on our proposal.
As a result of yesterday's discussion I first would like to put a renaming into the room:
"Environmental Conservation WG"

Following the recommendation, we would start as a working group also we see that there are a lot of jobs to be done, to oversight any project is at this time not part of it/too early and therefore not suitable for a TAG. Might change in the future.

Some of the initial task I see:
  • craft a team for the WG (I got already a couple of private messages and notes of interest)
  • scoping the activities - as mentioned in the meeting we see many dimensions, possibilities and ways of acting. an output here can be a kind of roadmap as well as a cloud native environmental impact map (work in this direction is generally done and need some CN spicing)
  • depending on the size of the team as well as the scoped activities, I would like to have the WG being active actually in to three directions
  • 1. towards the CNCF projects - did they worked already on something for improving their environment footprint? what are the problems they see? what is needed to overcome potential issues? etc.
  • 2. towards the enduser - as mentioned a key for this topic is awareness, and the our enduser are one/some of the strongest multiplicators. What are their current state? How OSS can help? Can we include this topic to the CNCF survey?
  • 3. bridging existing foundations and project - there are many initiatives out there, how we can bring them to our community? where we have a common sense? what is difficult for them to grow adoption? Lets learn from each other and be a vehicle for existing implementations/researches etc.
Sorry for the long email. I'm looking forward to your feedback, and your guidance to get the things started :)

Best
Max



Am Fr., 25. März 2022 um 01:33 Uhr schrieb Jaime Magiera <jaimelm@...>:
I’d be interested in contributing to this TAG, whatever the name will be. 

Jaime Magiera
DevOps Engineer Senior
ICPSR

"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea." 
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

On Mar 19, 2022, at 8:06 AM, Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:

Dear TOC,

we would like to propose you a new TAG. 

Sustainability is a growing and important topic and can be done effectively only if everyone delivers their part to it. The data centers' global energy consumption, and therefore the reason for CO2 emission, is around 2%. That maybe doesn't sound a lot but is equivalent to Canada or Germany, and is also bigger than the emissions caused by airplanes. 

At the same time, open source gets relevant momentum and can be found in many system implementations or is the foundation modern systems are built on. That's why we would like to propose you the TAG Sustainability. We as a community can lay the foundation for sustainable software, sustainable open source projects and best practices to deliver our part for a positive change in the future.

Please find our proposal here:

We would be more than happy to discuss this with you in the next TOC about the TAG. By questions feel free to reach out to us.

Best regards
Max



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Re: Proposal TAG Sustainability

Wojtek Cichoń
 

We need permission to that form :)
Wojtek Cichoń
Founding Marketing Manager


On Thu Apr 7, 2022, 02:25 PM GMT, Max Koerbaecher wrote:
Sorry for the spam, just saw that I skipped Wojtek answer.
I would be absolutely in for that and I'm pretty sure we can sponsor something for this like cold drinks :)
But before that, I would love to have a virtual kick-off assuming that some people can't make it to Valencia, and I would like to include everyone who is interested.

I have created a short form for the interested parties which we will add to the proposal: https://forms.gle/kJRmRa9WtRsn8csV8

Am Do., 7. Apr. 2022 um 15:37 Uhr schrieb Max Koerbaecher <max@...>:
Hello Chris,

thank you for your feedback. 
We addressed this in the proposal as well in the TOC meeting. We don't want to reinvent the wheel, but more over collect and aggregate on the one hand, and being a bridge or accelerator for the different CN projects on the other hand. Working with GSF, as well as other initiatives, will be one core part of the WG.

Best
Max

Am Do., 7. Apr. 2022 um 13:37 Uhr schrieb Chris Lloyd-Jones <chris.lloyd-jones@...>:
Hi folks,
This is my first ever CNCF email, as a newbie - and I wanted to clarify how this works regarding another Linux Foundation project, the Green Software Foundation: Green Software Foundation | GSF

I can see some folks have raised a similar question - some of the items in the vision and responsibilities are clearly different from the GSF, but some overlap.

That might be ok, but flagging now. 

Thanks,
Chris.

Chris Lloyd-Jones | Head of Open Technologies, Office of the CTO 

Calendar booking link 

[ Upcoming OOF – 7 April, 19-20 April, 2-9 May. ]



From: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of Wojtek Cichoń via lists.cncf.io <wojtek=akuity.io@...>
Sent: 07 April 2022 12:17
To: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...>; Max Koerbaecher <max@...>; Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...>
Subject: [External] Re: [cncf-toc] Proposal TAG Sustainability
 
You don't often get email from wojtek=akuity.io@.... Learn why this is important
Sounds great! I'm in! Where do I sign? 😉

In terms of the next steps - I assume that we have to split who does what and we could start by brainstorming ideas on how to answer the questions posed in your 1-3 points (surveys? outreach? etc.)

I thought that if you will be joining KubeCon EU in May we might try to arrange a meeting just to get to know each other. WDYT?
Before that happens, catching up once a month or two weeks would be good.

All the best!
Wojtek Cichoń
Founding Marketing Manager


On Wed Apr 6, 2022, 06:04 PM GMT, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
Max,

+1 to "Environmental Conservation WG" as the name and the initial tasks.

-- Dims

On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 2:01 PM Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:
Hello all,

thank you for having me at the TOC meeting yesterday and for the chance as well as the discussion on our proposal.
As a result of yesterday's discussion I first would like to put a renaming into the room:
"Environmental Conservation WG"

Following the recommendation, we would start as a working group also we see that there are a lot of jobs to be done, to oversight any project is at this time not part of it/too early and therefore not suitable for a TAG. Might change in the future.

Some of the initial task I see:
  • craft a team for the WG (I got already a couple of private messages and notes of interest)
  • scoping the activities - as mentioned in the meeting we see many dimensions, possibilities and ways of acting. an output here can be a kind of roadmap as well as a cloud native environmental impact map (work in this direction is generally done and need some CN spicing)
  • depending on the size of the team as well as the scoped activities, I would like to have the WG being active actually in to three directions
  • 1. towards the CNCF projects - did they worked already on something for improving their environment footprint? what are the problems they see? what is needed to overcome potential issues? etc.
  • 2. towards the enduser - as mentioned a key for this topic is awareness, and the our enduser are one/some of the strongest multiplicators. What are their current state? How OSS can help? Can we include this topic to the CNCF survey?
  • 3. bridging existing foundations and project - there are many initiatives out there, how we can bring them to our community? where we have a common sense? what is difficult for them to grow adoption? Lets learn from each other and be a vehicle for existing implementations/researches etc.
Sorry for the long email. I'm looking forward to your feedback, and your guidance to get the things started :)

Best
Max



Am Fr., 25. März 2022 um 01:33 Uhr schrieb Jaime Magiera <jaimelm@...>:
I’d be interested in contributing to this TAG, whatever the name will be. 

Jaime Magiera
DevOps Engineer Senior
ICPSR

"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea." 
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

On Mar 19, 2022, at 8:06 AM, Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:

Dear TOC,

we would like to propose you a new TAG. 

Sustainability is a growing and important topic and can be done effectively only if everyone delivers their part to it. The data centers' global energy consumption, and therefore the reason for CO2 emission, is around 2%. That maybe doesn't sound a lot but is equivalent to Canada or Germany, and is also bigger than the emissions caused by airplanes. 

At the same time, open source gets relevant momentum and can be found in many system implementations or is the foundation modern systems are built on. That's why we would like to propose you the TAG Sustainability. We as a community can lay the foundation for sustainable software, sustainable open source projects and best practices to deliver our part for a positive change in the future.

Please find our proposal here:

We would be more than happy to discuss this with you in the next TOC about the TAG. By questions feel free to reach out to us.

Best regards
Max



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Re: Proposal TAG Sustainability

Max Koerbaecher <max@...>
 

Hello Chris,

thank you for your feedback. 
We addressed this in the proposal as well in the TOC meeting. We don't want to reinvent the wheel, but more over collect and aggregate on the one hand, and being a bridge or accelerator for the different CN projects on the other hand. Working with GSF, as well as other initiatives, will be one core part of the WG.

Best
Max

Am Do., 7. Apr. 2022 um 13:37 Uhr schrieb Chris Lloyd-Jones <chris.lloyd-jones@...>:

Hi folks,
This is my first ever CNCF email, as a newbie - and I wanted to clarify how this works regarding another Linux Foundation project, the Green Software Foundation: Green Software Foundation | GSF

I can see some folks have raised a similar question - some of the items in the vision and responsibilities are clearly different from the GSF, but some overlap.

That might be ok, but flagging now. 

Thanks,
Chris.

Chris Lloyd-Jones | Head of Open Technologies, Office of the CTO 

Calendar booking link 

[ Upcoming OOF – 7 April, 19-20 April, 2-9 May. ]



From: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of Wojtek Cichoń via lists.cncf.io <wojtek=akuity.io@...>
Sent: 07 April 2022 12:17
To: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...>; Max Koerbaecher <max@...>; Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...>
Subject: [External] Re: [cncf-toc] Proposal TAG Sustainability
 
You don't often get email from wojtek=akuity.io@.... Learn why this is important
Sounds great! I'm in! Where do I sign? 😉

In terms of the next steps - I assume that we have to split who does what and we could start by brainstorming ideas on how to answer the questions posed in your 1-3 points (surveys? outreach? etc.)

I thought that if you will be joining KubeCon EU in May we might try to arrange a meeting just to get to know each other. WDYT?
Before that happens, catching up once a month or two weeks would be good.

All the best!
Wojtek Cichoń
Founding Marketing Manager


On Wed Apr 6, 2022, 06:04 PM GMT, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
Max,

+1 to "Environmental Conservation WG" as the name and the initial tasks.

-- Dims

On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 2:01 PM Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:
Hello all,

thank you for having me at the TOC meeting yesterday and for the chance as well as the discussion on our proposal.
As a result of yesterday's discussion I first would like to put a renaming into the room:
"Environmental Conservation WG"

Following the recommendation, we would start as a working group also we see that there are a lot of jobs to be done, to oversight any project is at this time not part of it/too early and therefore not suitable for a TAG. Might change in the future.

Some of the initial task I see:
  • craft a team for the WG (I got already a couple of private messages and notes of interest)
  • scoping the activities - as mentioned in the meeting we see many dimensions, possibilities and ways of acting. an output here can be a kind of roadmap as well as a cloud native environmental impact map (work in this direction is generally done and need some CN spicing)
  • depending on the size of the team as well as the scoped activities, I would like to have the WG being active actually in to three directions
  • 1. towards the CNCF projects - did they worked already on something for improving their environment footprint? what are the problems they see? what is needed to overcome potential issues? etc.
  • 2. towards the enduser - as mentioned a key for this topic is awareness, and the our enduser are one/some of the strongest multiplicators. What are their current state? How OSS can help? Can we include this topic to the CNCF survey?
  • 3. bridging existing foundations and project - there are many initiatives out there, how we can bring them to our community? where we have a common sense? what is difficult for them to grow adoption? Lets learn from each other and be a vehicle for existing implementations/researches etc.
Sorry for the long email. I'm looking forward to your feedback, and your guidance to get the things started :)

Best
Max



Am Fr., 25. März 2022 um 01:33 Uhr schrieb Jaime Magiera <jaimelm@...>:
I’d be interested in contributing to this TAG, whatever the name will be. 

Jaime Magiera
DevOps Engineer Senior
ICPSR

"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea." 
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

On Mar 19, 2022, at 8:06 AM, Max Koerbaecher <max@...> wrote:

Dear TOC,

we would like to propose you a new TAG. 

Sustainability is a growing and important topic and can be done effectively only if everyone delivers their part to it. The data centers' global energy consumption, and therefore the reason for CO2 emission, is around 2%. That maybe doesn't sound a lot but is equivalent to Canada or Germany, and is also bigger than the emissions caused by airplanes. 

At the same time, open source gets relevant momentum and can be found in many system implementations or is the foundation modern systems are built on. That's why we would like to propose you the TAG Sustainability. We as a community can lay the foundation for sustainable software, sustainable open source projects and best practices to deliver our part for a positive change in the future.

Please find our proposal here:

We would be more than happy to discuss this with you in the next TOC about the TAG. By questions feel free to reach out to us.

Best regards
Max



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Re: Proposal TAG Sustainability

Chen Wang
 

Thanks, Huamin, for the concrete steps to start.

Hi, All, should we start with creating a channel under CNCF?

Thanks,
Chen


Re: Proposal TAG Sustainability

Huamin Chen
 

Along that line, I would suggest the following early initiatives:

- Establish a sustainability methodology and best practice. There are abundant experiences and expertise across CNCF WGs and projects we can leverage. A highly fluid communication channel is needed to get this started.
- Incubate technology stacks towards green computing. I have been working with great minds across the industry on this topic, this is a very exciting area for innovations.
- Collaborate with ecosystems such as Green Software Foundation. Since Chris is with GSF, this is a good start.

Cheers!

Huamin

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