Re: Incubating and Inception levels in marketing materials
alexis richardson
thanks Dan & team
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@all TOC community, please do comment to Dan directly or on tomorrow's TOC call
On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 4:08 PM, Dan Kohn <dan@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
We'll be discussing maturity levels on the TOC call. This is just a quick
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Incubating and Inception levels in marketing materials
Dan Kohn <dan@...>
We'll be discussing maturity levels on the TOC call. This is just a quick note that at the TOC's request, we revised CNCF marketing materials to clearly separate Incubating and Inception projects: We will obviously add a more prominent graduated section as soon as the first projects graduate. The same project separation will carry over to our marketing materials for KubeCon + CloudNativeCon. -- Dan Kohn <dan@...> Executive Director, Cloud Native Computing Foundation https://www.cncf.io +1-415-233-1000 https://www.dankohn.com
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Agenda for TOC tomorrow
alexis richardson
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On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 2:17 PM, John Belamaric <jbelamaric@infoblox.com> wrote:
Thanks. I have a couple slides in the deck already, I may update them a bit
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Re: updating what it means to be "Cloud Native"
Brian Grant
On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 10:16 PM, Justin Garrison <justinleegarrison@...> wrote:
I agree that it's an end goal. I also agree that it's vague and not specific to cloud-native approaches. Even the principle of least privilege dates back to at least the 70s, so I don't think it's particularly helpful as a distinguishing characteristic unless we can further qualify it.
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Re: updating what it means to be "Cloud Native"
Justin Garrison <justinleegarrison@...>
I feel like "secure" is more along the lines of the end goals, not engineered attributes. I agree it's very important (see chapter 8 of Cloud Native Infrastructure) but many of the ways to make something secure are combinations of other attributes. From my experience the best you can do to secure any infrastructure and application is make the them verifiable (operability + observibility), agile to respond to vulnerabilities, and provisioned with least privilege. No amount of securing would have made you not vulnerable to spectre, heartbleed, or other critical vulnerabilities found in the past few years. Your best hope was if you could audit your systems (verifiable) and have an automated build/deploy pipeline (agile) to patch/replace impacted components. Even if the components were only provisioned with the minimum privileges needed vulnerabilities could still have huge impact and make your systems susceptible to hacking. The only secure attributes not covered by one of the existing attributes is least privilege access. How that is implemented depends a lot on the application and environment. Kubernetes' RBAC and SPIFFE are examples for how to secure systems but I feel like saying "Cloud Native is least privilege" doesn't clarify anything. Does that mean least privilege for services? How about user accounts? Does that mean I need to enable SElinux/AppArmor? What about VPCs and overlay networks? Maybe we can think of a way to clarify how to say "least privileged" without being too vague and sticking to engineered attributes and not end goals or product specific implementations.
On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 2:15 PM, Michael Gasch <embano1@...> wrote: Great thread and I totally agree what's been discussed and summarized so far here.
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Re: updating what it means to be "Cloud Native"
Erin Boyd
Wonderful collaboration! I think this is a very strong definition of the essence of CNCF!
On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 6:22 PM, Brian Grant via Lists.Cncf.Io <briangrant=google.com@...> wrote:
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Re: updating what it means to be "Cloud Native"
Michael Gasch <embano1@...>
Great thread and I totally agree what's been discussed and summarized so far here.
Do you mind incorporating a notion on security in the definitions? Something like:
Btw: I am German and can help thinking about more prescriptive "Attribut- und Zustandsbeschreibungen" :D
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Re: [VOTE] SPIFFE project proposal (inception)
Bob Williams <vcbobw@...>
+1 (non-binding)
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Re: updating what it means to be "Cloud Native"
Brian Grant
Another go: The mission of the Cloud Native Computing Foundation is to drive the adoption of technologies designed for modern dynamic, distributed environments, such as public clouds and private data centers. Cloud-native applications, services, platforms, and infrastructure are engineered to provide and/or enable operability, observability, elasticity, resilience, and agility. The Foundation seeks to foster an ecosystem interoperable Cloud-Native technologies and to advance the state of the art by fostering open-source projects that embody and/or support these attributes:
Example technologies and patterns that can be used to implement the above attributes, such as declarative configuration, APIs, application containers, and service meshes, are discussed in more detail in Schedule A, below.
On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 9:10 AM, Justin Garrison <justinleegarrison@...> wrote:
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Re: updating what it means to be "Cloud Native"
Brian Grant
On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 12:34 PM, Drew Rapenchuk <drapenchuk@...> wrote:
Deliberately vague. Yes, it could include the platform, such as Kubernetes.
I don't know that we're ready to draw a firm boundary yet. Cloud Native is still somewhat aspirational.
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Re: updating what it means to be "Cloud Native"
Drew Rapenchuk <drapenchuk@...>
This is much, much better! On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 09:30 am, Brian Grant wrote:
What exactly is a Cloud-native environment? Infrastructure? A platform on top of infrastructure? The resources provided by the platform? One could argue a Cloud-Native environment includes all of the above, But I know some who would disagree. I think it is worth it to really try to nail down at what point is a platform or system no longer itself cloud native. At what level does something being handled by a human touching it no longer make it cloud native?
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Re: [VOTE] SPIFFE project proposal (inception)
Spike Curtis
+1 (non-binding)
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Re: updating what it means to be "Cloud Native"
Justin Garrison <justinleegarrison@...>
Not at all. Please do! I shared them so they could be incorporated I prefer the engineered attributes:I agree. Many things can claim to be "scalable" but every design decision has trade-offs. How you get to scalability is what matters most to differentiate cloud native from other approaches. Some of the words might be interpreted as an end goal instead of an attribute (e.g. agile) so it may be hard to make a clear distinction. Deciding on specific attributes will be the hard part. Maybe we can find more specific and descriptive German words since it has a word for pretty much everything (j/k) On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 8:26 AM, Brian Grant via Lists.Cncf.Io <briangrant=google.com@...> wrote:
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Re: [VOTE] SPIFFE project proposal (inception)
Olivier Mallassi <olivier.mallassi@...>
+1 (non-binding)
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Re: [VOTE] SPIFFE project proposal (inception)
Ramses Martinez <ramses_martinez@...>
+1
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Re: updating what it means to be "Cloud Native"
Brian Grant
On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 11:13 PM, Yaron Haviv <yaronh@...> wrote:
As much as I'm a strong proponent of declarative configuration and APIs (and declarative APIs :-)), I agree that they are implementation techniques. I think we should provides examples of such techniques, but probably not in the mission statement.
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Re: updating what it means to be "Cloud Native"
Brian Grant
I prefer the engineered attributes:
Since I think some indication of strategy/technique is needed in order to distinguish CN from other/prior approaches.
On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 7:09 AM, Brian Grant <briangrant@...> wrote:
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Re: updating what it means to be "Cloud Native"
Brian Grant
Great discussion. Thanks! On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 10:12 PM, Justin Garrison <justinleegarrison@...> wrote:
Do you mind if we incorporate some/all of them? ChrisA also pointed out that Schedule A at the bottom of the charter also needs to be similarly updated. My current thinking is that we aim for a concise definition of the What in the mission statement and defer the How examples (declarative, APIs, microservices, etc.) to Schedule A.
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Re: [VOTE] SPIFFE project proposal (inception)
Justin Cormack
+1 non binding
On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:
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Re: [VOTE] SPIFFE project proposal (inception)
Michael Fertik
+1 (non-binding)
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