1. cncf-toc@lists.cncf.io
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Re: [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

Jonah Kowall
 

-1 NB for the same reasons echoed above. I would be quiet since there seemed to be a large consensus to accept it, but it seems like a poor precedent.

Similarly, I feel that Thanos and Cortex are similar enough that they should merge versus having two such projects under CNCF that have nearly identical architectures and lots of shared code. 


Jonah Kowall
CTO

Text/Call: +1-617-500-3575


On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 2:02 PM, Joe Beda <jbeda@...> wrote:

-1 non-binding

 

My concerns echo Bob’s.

 

There is a ton to like about k3s.  There is a super enthusiastic user community and it has pioneered bringing together an opinionated set of components with a streamlined experience.  That is awesome!

 

Concrete concerns:

  1. Is k3s a distribution?  Many people publicly refer to it as such. The project page itself (k3s.io) has a headline saying “The certified Kubernetes distribution built for IoT & Edge computing”.
  2. Should the CNCF be a place to host distributions? (purpose discussion for the TOC)
  3. The name is very confusing.  Kubernetes and k8s are synonymous.  In fact, “k8s” is a registered trademark of the LF (https://www.linuxfoundation.org/trademark-list/).  I’m not a lawyer, but these clearly commercially overlap and there is confusion in the marketplace. The LF may need to take action here regardless of the TOC decision.
  4. The places where k3s has made progress has, traditionally, included essentially forking parts of k8s and rebuilding.  That forking has gotten thinner over time but is still there.  There are promises around pushing changes upstream, but, to my knowledge, that has been minimal.  The relationship there is fraught with a lot of history of friction and conflict.
  5. [point in time concern] The project is still pretty entangled with the rest of Rancher.  This can be solved but obviously hasn’t been a priority.  An example is that the documentation for k3s is part of the Rancher docs repo.  Would the docs be included in the assets that come into the CNCF?
    1. The repo is also part of the Rancher org.  The set of code owners is hidden and looks to be driven exclusively by Rancher (https://github.com/rancher/k3s/blob/master/CODEOWNERS).

 

There are a lot of thorny issues here. I have confidence in the TOC to be able to detangle these.

 

Thanks,

Joe

 

From: cncf-toc@lists.cncf.io <cncf-toc@lists.cncf.io>
Date: Friday, July 31, 2020 at 9:14 AM
To: aprokharchyk@apple.com <aprokharchyk@apple.com>, Amye Scavarda Perrin <ascavarda@linuxfoundation.org>
Cc: CNCF TOC <cncf-toc@lists.cncf.io>
Subject: [Suspected Spam] Re: [cncf-toc] [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

-1 non-binding.

 

I’m deeply concerned about the idea that CNCF is accepting what appears to be a Kubernetes fork into sandbox.

 

The statements about “encouraging upstream” seem like good intentions only.

 

Kubernetes as a project has, in my opinion, succeeded in part because of the community dedication to staying upstream and not forking.

 

For clarity, I would be strongly in favor of k3s being part of Kubernetes upstream.

 

-Bob

 

 

 

 

From: <cncf-toc@lists.cncf.io> on behalf of "Alena Prokharchyk via lists.cncf.io" <aprokharchyk=apple.com@lists.cncf.io>
Reply-To: "aprokharchyk@apple.com" <aprokharchyk@apple.com>
Date: Friday, July 31, 2020 at 9:09 AM
To: Amye Scavarda Perrin <ascavarda@linuxfoundation.org>
Cc: CNCF TOC <cncf-toc@lists.cncf.io>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [cncf-toc] [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

 

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.

 

+1 binding.

 

-alena.




On Jul 31, 2020, at 8:04 AM, Amye Scavarda Perrin <ascavarda@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

 

k3s has applied for inclusion into the sandbox: https://github.com/cncf/toc/pull/447.

Liz Rice has called for the vote: https://lists.cncf.io/g/cncf-toc/message/5081

Please vote (+1/0/-1) by replying to this thread.

Remember that the TOC has binding votes only, but we do appreciate non-binding votes from the community as a sign of support!

 

--

Amye Scavarda Perrin | Program Manager | amye@linuxfoundation.org

 

 
Re: [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

alexis richardson
 

-1, nb

+1 to joe & bob comments.
I am very keen to see k3s initiative do well
I am even more keen to see it feed back into K8s

let's find a way to make this work!  I don't know the answer and recognise how unfair this probably seems to the k3s folks





On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 7:04 PM Joe Beda <jbeda@...> wrote:

-1 non-binding

 

My concerns echo Bob’s.

 

There is a ton to like about k3s.  There is a super enthusiastic user community and it has pioneered bringing together an opinionated set of components with a streamlined experience.  That is awesome!

 

Concrete concerns:

  1. Is k3s a distribution?  Many people publicly refer to it as such. The project page itself (k3s.io) has a headline saying “The certified Kubernetes distribution built for IoT & Edge computing”.
  2. Should the CNCF be a place to host distributions? (purpose discussion for the TOC)
  3. The name is very confusing.  Kubernetes and k8s are synonymous.  In fact, “k8s” is a registered trademark of the LF (https://www.linuxfoundation.org/trademark-list/).  I’m not a lawyer, but these clearly commercially overlap and there is confusion in the marketplace. The LF may need to take action here regardless of the TOC decision.
  4. The places where k3s has made progress has, traditionally, included essentially forking parts of k8s and rebuilding.  That forking has gotten thinner over time but is still there.  There are promises around pushing changes upstream, but, to my knowledge, that has been minimal.  The relationship there is fraught with a lot of history of friction and conflict.
  5. [point in time concern] The project is still pretty entangled with the rest of Rancher.  This can be solved but obviously hasn’t been a priority.  An example is that the documentation for k3s is part of the Rancher docs repo.  Would the docs be included in the assets that come into the CNCF?
    1. The repo is also part of the Rancher org.  The set of code owners is hidden and looks to be driven exclusively by Rancher (https://github.com/rancher/k3s/blob/master/CODEOWNERS).

 

There are a lot of thorny issues here. I have confidence in the TOC to be able to detangle these.

 

Thanks,

Joe

 

From: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...>
Date: Friday, July 31, 2020 at 9:14 AM
To: aprokharchyk@... <aprokharchyk@...>, Amye Scavarda Perrin <ascavarda@...>
Cc: CNCF TOC <cncf-toc@...>
Subject: [Suspected Spam] Re: [cncf-toc] [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

-1 non-binding.

 

I’m deeply concerned about the idea that CNCF is accepting what appears to be a Kubernetes fork into sandbox.

 

The statements about “encouraging upstream” seem like good intentions only.

 

Kubernetes as a project has, in my opinion, succeeded in part because of the community dedication to staying upstream and not forking.

 

For clarity, I would be strongly in favor of k3s being part of Kubernetes upstream.

 

-Bob

 

 

 

 

From: <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of "Alena Prokharchyk via lists.cncf.io" <aprokharchyk=apple.com@...>
Reply-To: "aprokharchyk@..." <aprokharchyk@...>
Date: Friday, July 31, 2020 at 9:09 AM
To: Amye Scavarda Perrin <ascavarda@...>
Cc: CNCF TOC <cncf-toc@...>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [cncf-toc] [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

 

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.

 

+1 binding.

 

-alena.




On Jul 31, 2020, at 8:04 AM, Amye Scavarda Perrin <ascavarda@...> wrote:

 

k3s has applied for inclusion into the sandbox: https://github.com/cncf/toc/pull/447.

Liz Rice has called for the vote: https://lists.cncf.io/g/cncf-toc/message/5081

Please vote (+1/0/-1) by replying to this thread.

Remember that the TOC has binding votes only, but we do appreciate non-binding votes from the community as a sign of support!

 

--

Amye Scavarda Perrin | Program Manager | amye@...

 

 
Re: [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

Joe Beda <jbeda@...>
 

-1 non-binding

 

My concerns echo Bob’s.

 

There is a ton to like about k3s.  There is a super enthusiastic user community and it has pioneered bringing together an opinionated set of components with a streamlined experience.  That is awesome!

 

Concrete concerns:

  1. Is k3s a distribution?  Many people publicly refer to it as such. The project page itself (k3s.io) has a headline saying “The certified Kubernetes distribution built for IoT & Edge computing”.
  2. Should the CNCF be a place to host distributions? (purpose discussion for the TOC)
  3. The name is very confusing.  Kubernetes and k8s are synonymous.  In fact, “k8s” is a registered trademark of the LF (https://www.linuxfoundation.org/trademark-list/).  I’m not a lawyer, but these clearly commercially overlap and there is confusion in the marketplace. The LF may need to take action here regardless of the TOC decision.
  4. The places where k3s has made progress has, traditionally, included essentially forking parts of k8s and rebuilding.  That forking has gotten thinner over time but is still there.  There are promises around pushing changes upstream, but, to my knowledge, that has been minimal.  The relationship there is fraught with a lot of history of friction and conflict.
  5. [point in time concern] The project is still pretty entangled with the rest of Rancher.  This can be solved but obviously hasn’t been a priority.  An example is that the documentation for k3s is part of the Rancher docs repo.  Would the docs be included in the assets that come into the CNCF?
    1. The repo is also part of the Rancher org.  The set of code owners is hidden and looks to be driven exclusively by Rancher (https://github.com/rancher/k3s/blob/master/CODEOWNERS).

 

There are a lot of thorny issues here. I have confidence in the TOC to be able to detangle these.

 

Thanks,

Joe

 

From: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...>
Date: Friday, July 31, 2020 at 9:14 AM
To: aprokharchyk@... <aprokharchyk@...>, Amye Scavarda Perrin <ascavarda@...>
Cc: CNCF TOC <cncf-toc@...>
Subject: [Suspected Spam] Re: [cncf-toc] [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

-1 non-binding.

 

I’m deeply concerned about the idea that CNCF is accepting what appears to be a Kubernetes fork into sandbox.

 

The statements about “encouraging upstream” seem like good intentions only.

 

Kubernetes as a project has, in my opinion, succeeded in part because of the community dedication to staying upstream and not forking.

 

For clarity, I would be strongly in favor of k3s being part of Kubernetes upstream.

 

-Bob

 

 

 

 

From: <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of "Alena Prokharchyk via lists.cncf.io" <aprokharchyk=apple.com@...>
Reply-To: "aprokharchyk@..." <aprokharchyk@...>
Date: Friday, July 31, 2020 at 9:09 AM
To: Amye Scavarda Perrin <ascavarda@...>
Cc: CNCF TOC <cncf-toc@...>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [cncf-toc] [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

 

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.

 

+1 binding.

 

-alena.




On Jul 31, 2020, at 8:04 AM, Amye Scavarda Perrin <ascavarda@...> wrote:

 

k3s has applied for inclusion into the sandbox: https://github.com/cncf/toc/pull/447.

Liz Rice has called for the vote: https://lists.cncf.io/g/cncf-toc/message/5081

Please vote (+1/0/-1) by replying to this thread.

Remember that the TOC has binding votes only, but we do appreciate non-binding votes from the community as a sign of support!

 

--

Amye Scavarda Perrin | Program Manager | amye@...

 

 
Re: [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

Bob Wise (AWS)
 

-1 non-binding.

 

I’m deeply concerned about the idea that CNCF is accepting what appears to be a Kubernetes fork into sandbox.

 

The statements about “encouraging upstream” seem like good intentions only.

 

Kubernetes as a project has, in my opinion, succeeded in part because of the community dedication to staying upstream and not forking.

 

For clarity, I would be strongly in favor of k3s being part of Kubernetes upstream.

 

-Bob

 

 

 

 

From: <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of "Alena Prokharchyk via lists.cncf.io" <aprokharchyk=apple.com@...>
Reply-To: "aprokharchyk@..." <aprokharchyk@...>
Date: Friday, July 31, 2020 at 9:09 AM
To: Amye Scavarda Perrin <ascavarda@...>
Cc: CNCF TOC <cncf-toc@...>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [cncf-toc] [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

 

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.

 

+1 binding.

 

-alena.



On Jul 31, 2020, at 8:04 AM, Amye Scavarda Perrin <ascavarda@...> wrote:

 

k3s has applied for inclusion into the sandbox: https://github.com/cncf/toc/pull/447.

Liz Rice has called for the vote: https://lists.cncf.io/g/cncf-toc/message/5081

Please vote (+1/0/-1) by replying to this thread.

Remember that the TOC has binding votes only, but we do appreciate non-binding votes from the community as a sign of support!

 

--

Amye Scavarda Perrin | Program Manager | amye@...

 
Re: [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

Alena Prokharchyk
 

+1 binding.

-alena.

On Jul 31, 2020, at 8:04 AM, Amye Scavarda Perrin <ascavarda@...> wrote:

k3s has applied for inclusion into the sandbox: https://github.com/cncf/toc/pull/447.

Liz Rice has called for the vote: https://lists.cncf.io/g/cncf-toc/message/5081

Please vote (+1/0/-1) by replying to this thread.

Remember that the TOC has binding votes only, but we do appreciate non-binding votes from the community as a sign of support!

--
Amye Scavarda Perrin | Program Manager | amye@...
Re: [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

Matt Klein
 

+1


On Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 8:04 AM Amye Scavarda Perrin <ascavarda@...> wrote:
k3s has applied for inclusion into the sandbox: https://github.com/cncf/toc/pull/447.

Liz Rice has called for the vote: https://lists.cncf.io/g/cncf-toc/message/5081

Please vote (+1/0/-1) by replying to this thread.

Remember that the TOC has binding votes only, but we do appreciate non-binding votes from the community as a sign of support!

--
Amye Scavarda Perrin | Program Manager | amye@...
Re: [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

Mofei Zhang
 

+1 NB


On Jul 31, 2020, at 23:04, Amye Scavarda Perrin <ascavarda@...> wrote:

k3s has applied for inclusion into the sandbox: https://github.com/cncf/toc/pull/447.

Liz Rice has called for the vote: https://lists.cncf.io/g/cncf-toc/message/5081

Please vote (+1/0/-1) by replying to this thread.

Remember that the TOC has binding votes only, but we do appreciate non-binding votes from the community as a sign of support!

--
Amye Scavarda Perrin | Program Manager | amye@...

Mofei Zhang
Architect , JD.com
Maintainer , ChubaoFS

?
smime.p7s

Re: [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

Jeff Billimek
 

+1 NB
Re: [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

Owens, Ken
 

+1 NB

 

Ken Owens

Vice President

Software Development Engineering

 

Mastercard

 

From: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...> On Behalf Of Amye Scavarda Perrin
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 10:05 AM
To: CNCF TOC <cncf-toc@...>
Subject: [cncf-toc] [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

 

CAUTION: The message originated from an EXTERNAL SOURCE. Please use caution when opening attachments, clicking links or responding to this email.

 

k3s has applied for inclusion into the sandbox: https://github.com/cncf/toc/pull/447.

Liz Rice has called for the vote: https://lists.cncf.io/g/cncf-toc/message/5081

Please vote (+1/0/-1) by replying to this thread.

Remember that the TOC has binding votes only, but we do appreciate non-binding votes from the community as a sign of support!

 

--

Amye Scavarda Perrin | Program Manager | amye@...

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail message and any attachments are only for the use of the intended recipient and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, distribution or other use of this e-mail message or attachments is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please delete and notify the sender immediately. Thank you.

Re: [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

Siddharth Bhadri
 

+1 NB

 

Thanks & Regards,

 

Siddharth Bhadri
Software Engineer

Infoblox | Next Level Networking
sbhadri@...  |  www.infoblox.com

signature_1030897669

 

 

From: <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of Lorenzo Fontana <fontanalorenz@...>
Date: Friday, 31 July 2020 at 8:48 PM
To: Amye Scavarda Perrin <ascavarda@...>
Cc: CNCF TOC <cncf-toc@...>
Subject: Re: [cncf-toc] [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

 

+1 nb 

 

 

 

On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 17:04 Amye Scavarda Perrin <ascavarda@...> wrote:

k3s has applied for inclusion into the sandbox: https://github.com/cncf/toc/pull/447.

Liz Rice has called for the vote: https://lists.cncf.io/g/cncf-toc/message/5081

Please vote (+1/0/-1) by replying to this thread.

Remember that the TOC has binding votes only, but we do appreciate non-binding votes from the community as a sign of support!


 

--

Amye Scavarda Perrin | Program Manager | amye@...
Re: [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

Lorenzo Fontana
 

+1 nb 



On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 17:04 Amye Scavarda Perrin <ascavarda@...> wrote:
k3s has applied for inclusion into the sandbox: https://github.com/cncf/toc/pull/447.

Liz Rice has called for the vote: https://lists.cncf.io/g/cncf-toc/message/5081

Please vote (+1/0/-1) by replying to this thread.

Remember that the TOC has binding votes only, but we do appreciate non-binding votes from the community as a sign of support!


--
Amye Scavarda Perrin | Program Manager | amye@...
Re: [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

Gerred Dillon
 

+1 nb

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 11:16 AM Herve LECLERC <herve.leclerc@...> wrote:
+1 nb

Re: [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

Herve LECLERC
 

+1 nb
Re: [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

saiyam pathak
 

+1 NB


On Fri, 31 Jul 2020, 20:34 Amye Scavarda Perrin, <ascavarda@...> wrote:
k3s has applied for inclusion into the sandbox: https://github.com/cncf/toc/pull/447.

Liz Rice has called for the vote: https://lists.cncf.io/g/cncf-toc/message/5081

Please vote (+1/0/-1) by replying to this thread.

Remember that the TOC has binding votes only, but we do appreciate non-binding votes from the community as a sign of support!

--
Amye Scavarda Perrin | Program Manager | amye@...
Re: [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

Phil Estes
 

+1 nb

  • Phil Estes
Re: [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

Barak Stout
 

+1 nb vote :) 

Barak Stout

From: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of Amye Scavarda Perrin via lists.cncf.io <ascavarda=linuxfoundation.org@...>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 11:04:30 AM
To: CNCF TOC <cncf-toc@...>
Subject: [cncf-toc] [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox
 
k3s has applied for inclusion into the sandbox: https://github.com/cncf/toc/pull/447.

Liz Rice has called for the vote: https://lists.cncf.io/g/cncf-toc/message/5081

Please vote (+1/0/-1) by replying to this thread.

Remember that the TOC has binding votes only, but we do appreciate non-binding votes from the community as a sign of support!

--
Amye Scavarda Perrin | Program Manager | amye@...
Re: [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

Roger Klorese
 

+1 nb

 

-- 

signature_232597712

 

Roger Klorese 
Senior Product Manager, SUSE CaaS Platform

 

SUSE

 

+1 206 217 7432 office
+1 425 444 5493 mobile

roger.klorese@...

 

255 King Street Suite 800
Seattle WA 98104 US

 

www.suse.com

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From: <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of "Amye Scavarda Perrin via lists.cncf.io" <ascavarda=linuxfoundation.org@...>
Reply-To: "ascavarda@..." <ascavarda@...>
Date: Friday, July 31, 2020 at 8:05 AM
To: CNCF TOC <cncf-toc@...>
Subject: [cncf-toc] [VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

 

k3s has applied for inclusion into the sandbox: https://github.com/cncf/toc/pull/447.

Liz Rice has called for the vote: https://lists.cncf.io/g/cncf-toc/message/5081

Please vote (+1/0/-1) by replying to this thread.

Remember that the TOC has binding votes only, but we do appreciate non-binding votes from the community as a sign of support!

 

--

Amye Scavarda Perrin | Program Manager | amye@...
[VOTE] k3s for Sandbox

Amye Scavarda Perrin
 

k3s has applied for inclusion into the sandbox: https://github.com/cncf/toc/pull/447.

Liz Rice has called for the vote: https://lists.cncf.io/g/cncf-toc/message/5081

Please vote (+1/0/-1) by replying to this thread.

Remember that the TOC has binding votes only, but we do appreciate non-binding votes from the community as a sign of support!

--
Amye Scavarda Perrin | Program Manager | amye@...
k3s sandbox proposal

Liz Rice
 

Hi everyone, 

At our last Sandbox application review meeting, TOC didn't vote on k3s pending a discussion with the K8s Steering Committee on whether k3s makes more sense as a standalone project or as a subproject of Kubernetes. There are arguably some parallels with kind and minikube (which live within the Kubernetes project) and also with KubeEdge and Virtual Kubelet (which are separate projects). 

We had a very productive discussion on this yesterday and reached the conclusion that it makes more sense as a standalone project at this time. I'm now calling a TOC vote on whether to accept k3s into the Sandbox. 

Noting that: 
* We are asking the k3s team to publish the roadmap (including intention to stay conformant with k8s, and to continue with release cadence) - this is already in the k3s sandbox submission but we'd like to see it documented in the k3s repo itself
* We encourage k3s contributing changes upstream to k8s so that divergence is as small as possible, and we would like to see the projects co-operating harmoniously :-) 

And also noting that 
* we already have form for "distribution-esque" projects in the form of Thanos & Cortex
* becoming a CNCF sandbox project now does not preclude the possibility that k3s could become part of k8s project in future - only if that were desired by both sides (following the model that kind and minikube fall under k8s right now) 

(Amye please can you set up an email vote, no need to wait for the next review meeting)

Liz
Re: [VOTE] Cortex for Incubation

Ganesh Vernekar
 

+1 NB

Regards,
Ganesh
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