Date   

Re: Interim CNCF CoCC and New structure of WG for CoCC update

Davanum Srinivas
 

Folks,

Monday July 11th is the deadline for elected community member Approver! Please send in your nomination if you are interested in helping lead the work group efforts.

thanks,
-- Dims


On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 1:02 PM Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...> wrote:
Hi All,

just reminding you that we are accepting nominations for the elected community member Approver for the Code of Conduct Working Group.  If you are an active Incubating or Graduated Maintainer[1] and would like to run for the elected community member Approver, please notify Taylor Waggoner (twaggoner AT linuxfoundation.org) by July 11, 2022.

As explained in more detail in our recent blog post regarding the new working group structure[2], the runner up will serve as an alternate Approver with eligibility to be promoted to primary Approver.  Additionally, Incubating & Graduated Maintainers are also welcome to serve as Reviewers.

Thanks,
Dims

[1] https://maintainers.cncf.io/
[2] https://www.cncf.io/blog/2022/06/23/new-structure-for-cncf-code-of-conduct-update-project/

On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 10:59 AM Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...> wrote:
Folks,

Please see the 2 blog posts that went public just now, Many thanks to all the folks who helped shape both the Interim CoCC structure (for the short term) and the shape of the new WG for CoCC updates (for the longer term)

Blog post #1 : This one talks about who is in the Interim CoCC (including alternates/policies) - https://www.cncf.io/blog/2022/06/23/cncfs-interim-cncf-code-of-conduct-committee-has-launched/

Blog post #2 : We had earlier published a blog post on June 6th and we got a lot of feedback from our overall community, so we incorporated the feedback to be more open/inclusive, this WG will help draft what/how of the CoCC in the longer term - https://www.cncf.io/blog/2022/06/23/new-structure-for-cncf-code-of-conduct-update-project/

We welcome feedback on both from everyone for sure (possibly cncf-toc mailing list would be a good place to have our public back-and-forth as needed). But feel free to reach out publicly or privately to folks involved.

Thanks,
CNCF TOC Chair and CNCF GB Chair

PS: I am posting this as Arun is on a plane! Bon voyage Arun.
PPS: apologies for posting to a mix of public and private lists! 

--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Re: Real Name Policy for CNCF

Davanum Srinivas
 

Folks,

Please use this issue and add as much context/questions as you can so the GB and GB's Legal Committee can consider them during their decision making process:

Thanks,
Dims


On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 7:28 PM Aeva <aeva.online@...> wrote:
Thanks, Chris. I appreciate the clarification.

--Aeva

On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 3:46 PM Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:
Hey folks, just to let you know, this is a policy that has been in place for awhile in multiple LF communities like the Linux Kernel, Hyperledger etc.

I'm not reverting the change as this is what the policy is and it makes that clear.

If you want to change this, I'd advise you open a new issue and talk to your developer reps who will have to bring it up to the GB.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 5:23 PM Aeva <aeva.online@...> wrote:
+1 to the concerns here, and +1 to having the appropriate folks discuss this issue, in ways that consider both the legal requirements regarding copyright assignment, and precedent in other organizations, and the societal implications.

Without commenting in any way on the merits of ChrisA's update, I would like to suggest reverting that FAQ change to give time for the conversation to happen and so that the guidance (and its ramifications) can be properly thought out.

Best,
--Aeva


On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 3:09 PM Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...> wrote:
Josh,

I would tell folks to NOT change anything that they are doing today. 

ChrisA jumped the gun and pushed the change directly to master. I was looking to have a conversation + debate.

I am waiting for some notes from the original person who asked the questions, so then we could figure out how to get it in front of the GB Legal Committee.

So tell them to hang tight and not change a thing. Let this be a FAQ for *new* project(s) for now.

-- Dims

On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 5:27 PM Josh Berkus <jberkus@...> wrote:
Dims,

Can you explain how we reconcile this with the CNCF code of conduct?

Asking because a simple reading of it would require "deadnaming" many of
our trans contributors.  How do we avoid that?


--
-- Josh Berkus
    Kubernetes Community Architect
    OSPO, OCTO



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims



--
Chris Aniszczyk (@cra)


--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Re: Real Name Policy for CNCF

Aeva
 

Thanks, Chris. I appreciate the clarification.

--Aeva


On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 3:46 PM Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...> wrote:
Hey folks, just to let you know, this is a policy that has been in place for awhile in multiple LF communities like the Linux Kernel, Hyperledger etc.

I'm not reverting the change as this is what the policy is and it makes that clear.

If you want to change this, I'd advise you open a new issue and talk to your developer reps who will have to bring it up to the GB.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 5:23 PM Aeva <aeva.online@...> wrote:
+1 to the concerns here, and +1 to having the appropriate folks discuss this issue, in ways that consider both the legal requirements regarding copyright assignment, and precedent in other organizations, and the societal implications.

Without commenting in any way on the merits of ChrisA's update, I would like to suggest reverting that FAQ change to give time for the conversation to happen and so that the guidance (and its ramifications) can be properly thought out.

Best,
--Aeva


On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 3:09 PM Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...> wrote:
Josh,

I would tell folks to NOT change anything that they are doing today. 

ChrisA jumped the gun and pushed the change directly to master. I was looking to have a conversation + debate.

I am waiting for some notes from the original person who asked the questions, so then we could figure out how to get it in front of the GB Legal Committee.

So tell them to hang tight and not change a thing. Let this be a FAQ for *new* project(s) for now.

-- Dims

On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 5:27 PM Josh Berkus <jberkus@...> wrote:
Dims,

Can you explain how we reconcile this with the CNCF code of conduct?

Asking because a simple reading of it would require "deadnaming" many of
our trans contributors.  How do we avoid that?


--
-- Josh Berkus
    Kubernetes Community Architect
    OSPO, OCTO



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims



--
Chris Aniszczyk (@cra)


Re: Real Name Policy for CNCF

Matt Young
 

+1

Although it might be difficult to quantify the size and scope of impact, it is nonetheless important that we find a solution. 

As there is a body of  prior art and consensus on the topic, I’m optimistic that [capital “W”] We can find path(s) forward that could address and balance these concerns.

On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 2:26 AM Frederick Kautz <frederick@...> wrote:
This policy is going to exclude a lot of people who are at risk from harassment. A significant number of people use pseudonyms today. We should consider revising this policy. Perhaps there is a path where we can allow people to register their pseudonym to help balance privacy and legal protection of the projects.

On Sun, Jul 3, 2022 at 2:23 PM Christoph Blecker <cblecker@...> wrote:
This isn't so much a question, as it is a request for the CNCF/TOC to review and possibly reverse this policy. While I and many others choose to use their legal name when contributing to projects, there are many reasons why someone might choose to use a pseudonym while contributing. Examples of some of those reasons and the harm that a "real names" policy can create are discussed in the EFF's open letter to Facebook, when Facebook introduced their real name policy in 2015 [1].

Pseudonyms are also used regularly when publishing copyrighted works. When used in the book publishing industry, they are commonly known as "pen names". The U.S. Copyright Office [2] (where the CNCF is based) and the Canadian Intellectual Property Office [3] (where I am personally based) both affirm that use of a pseudonym is permitted.

I'm sure there are others who have more expertise in the subject who could provide more reasons and context, but I personally feel like this is an unnecessary barrier to contribution and may exclude talented contributors from our projects.

Cheers,

On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 3:04 PM Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...> wrote:
Hi Folks,

There was a query from one of the projects about Pseudonyms for DCO and CLA. The CNCF staff has clarified the current policy:
https://github.com/cncf/toc/commit/4b5d5049bce9719bff4b10939389204bc0493557

If you have any questions related to this policy, please chime in.

thanks,
Dims

--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Re: Real Name Policy for CNCF

Chris Aniszczyk
 

We point to the Linux Kernel as an example in the FAQ as the original and canonical DCO reference: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst#developers-certificate-of-origin-11

There's no intention in turning away anyone but if this has impact, I'd advise working with your developer reps on improving the policy or adding clarity.


On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 5:20 PM Josh Berkus <jberkus@...> wrote:
On 7/6/22 15:09, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> So tell them to hang tight and not change a thing. Let this be a FAQ for
> *new* project(s) for now.
>

Can we get a clarification on "Real Names", please?  That could resolve
this.  I'm sure other LF projects aren't turning away trans contributors
... is there language they use?

--
-- Josh Berkus
    Kubernetes Community Architect
    OSPO, OCTO








--
Chris Aniszczyk (@cra)


Re: Real Name Policy for CNCF

Chris Aniszczyk
 

Hey folks, just to let you know, this is a policy that has been in place for awhile in multiple LF communities like the Linux Kernel, Hyperledger etc.

I'm not reverting the change as this is what the policy is and it makes that clear.

If you want to change this, I'd advise you open a new issue and talk to your developer reps who will have to bring it up to the GB.


On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 5:23 PM Aeva <aeva.online@...> wrote:
+1 to the concerns here, and +1 to having the appropriate folks discuss this issue, in ways that consider both the legal requirements regarding copyright assignment, and precedent in other organizations, and the societal implications.

Without commenting in any way on the merits of ChrisA's update, I would like to suggest reverting that FAQ change to give time for the conversation to happen and so that the guidance (and its ramifications) can be properly thought out.

Best,
--Aeva


On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 3:09 PM Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...> wrote:
Josh,

I would tell folks to NOT change anything that they are doing today. 

ChrisA jumped the gun and pushed the change directly to master. I was looking to have a conversation + debate.

I am waiting for some notes from the original person who asked the questions, so then we could figure out how to get it in front of the GB Legal Committee.

So tell them to hang tight and not change a thing. Let this be a FAQ for *new* project(s) for now.

-- Dims

On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 5:27 PM Josh Berkus <jberkus@...> wrote:
Dims,

Can you explain how we reconcile this with the CNCF code of conduct?

Asking because a simple reading of it would require "deadnaming" many of
our trans contributors.  How do we avoid that?


--
-- Josh Berkus
    Kubernetes Community Architect
    OSPO, OCTO



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims



--
Chris Aniszczyk (@cra)


Re: Real Name Policy for CNCF

Aeva
 

+1 to the concerns here, and +1 to having the appropriate folks discuss this issue, in ways that consider both the legal requirements regarding copyright assignment, and precedent in other organizations, and the societal implications.

Without commenting in any way on the merits of ChrisA's update, I would like to suggest reverting that FAQ change to give time for the conversation to happen and so that the guidance (and its ramifications) can be properly thought out.

Best,
--Aeva


On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 3:09 PM Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...> wrote:
Josh,

I would tell folks to NOT change anything that they are doing today. 

ChrisA jumped the gun and pushed the change directly to master. I was looking to have a conversation + debate.

I am waiting for some notes from the original person who asked the questions, so then we could figure out how to get it in front of the GB Legal Committee.

So tell them to hang tight and not change a thing. Let this be a FAQ for *new* project(s) for now.

-- Dims

On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 5:27 PM Josh Berkus <jberkus@...> wrote:
Dims,

Can you explain how we reconcile this with the CNCF code of conduct?

Asking because a simple reading of it would require "deadnaming" many of
our trans contributors.  How do we avoid that?


--
-- Josh Berkus
    Kubernetes Community Architect
    OSPO, OCTO



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Re: Real Name Policy for CNCF

Josh Berkus
 

On 7/6/22 15:09, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
So tell them to hang tight and not change a thing. Let this be a FAQ for *new* project(s) for now.
Can we get a clarification on "Real Names", please? That could resolve this. I'm sure other LF projects aren't turning away trans contributors ... is there language they use?

--
-- Josh Berkus
Kubernetes Community Architect
OSPO, OCTO


Re: Real Name Policy for CNCF

Davanum Srinivas
 

ChrisA,

Hope you don't mind me talking candidly :) should have cross checked the recipients :)

-- Dims


On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 6:09 PM Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...> wrote:
Josh,

I would tell folks to NOT change anything that they are doing today. 

ChrisA jumped the gun and pushed the change directly to master. I was looking to have a conversation + debate.

I am waiting for some notes from the original person who asked the questions, so then we could figure out how to get it in front of the GB Legal Committee.

So tell them to hang tight and not change a thing. Let this be a FAQ for *new* project(s) for now.

-- Dims

On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 5:27 PM Josh Berkus <jberkus@...> wrote:
Dims,

Can you explain how we reconcile this with the CNCF code of conduct?

Asking because a simple reading of it would require "deadnaming" many of
our trans contributors.  How do we avoid that?


--
-- Josh Berkus
    Kubernetes Community Architect
    OSPO, OCTO



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Re: Real Name Policy for CNCF

Davanum Srinivas
 

Josh,

I would tell folks to NOT change anything that they are doing today. 

ChrisA jumped the gun and pushed the change directly to master. I was looking to have a conversation + debate.

I am waiting for some notes from the original person who asked the questions, so then we could figure out how to get it in front of the GB Legal Committee.

So tell them to hang tight and not change a thing. Let this be a FAQ for *new* project(s) for now.

-- Dims


On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 5:27 PM Josh Berkus <jberkus@...> wrote:
Dims,

Can you explain how we reconcile this with the CNCF code of conduct?

Asking because a simple reading of it would require "deadnaming" many of
our trans contributors.  How do we avoid that?


--
-- Josh Berkus
    Kubernetes Community Architect
    OSPO, OCTO



--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Re: Real Name Policy for CNCF

Josh Berkus
 

Dims,

Can you explain how we reconcile this with the CNCF code of conduct?

Asking because a simple reading of it would require "deadnaming" many of our trans contributors. How do we avoid that?


--
-- Josh Berkus
Kubernetes Community Architect
OSPO, OCTO


Fluid 2022 Annual Review submitted

顾荣 <gurongwalker@...>
 

Dear CNCF TOC members,

I am Rong Gu, a maintainer of Fluid project (CNCF sandbox). We have submitted the Fluid 2022 Annual Review. The PR is here:https://github.com/cncf/toc/pull/870.  Please kindly review it. Thanks.

Best,
Rong


Re: Mentoring WG for Approval

Katie Gamanji
 

Reviewed too! LGTM


On Fri, 1 Jul 2022, 17:06 Davanum Srinivas, <davanum@...> wrote:
Just reviewed. LGTM Josh. Thanks for wrapping it up.

-- Dims

On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 11:59 AM Josh Berkus <jberkus@...> wrote:
Dims, Kate, Matt, all:

Here's the final on the charter for the Mentoring WG:

https://github.com/cncf/tag-contributor-strategy/pull/188

Once you approve this, I'll update references elsewhere.

--
-- Josh Berkus
    Kubernetes Community Architect
    OSPO, OCTO








--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Re: Real Name Policy for CNCF

Gareth Rushgrove
 

Worth noting the policy doesn't define "real name".

This could be implied to mean full legal name (not a lawyer, but I
think that's the common usage term in law). Or you could imply it to
mean "the name literally everyone calls me in the real world". Those
two names for lots of people could be different.

That I think makes it clearer how this can be exclusionary and open to
being weaponised against marginalised folks.

Gareth

On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 at 07:26, Frederick Kautz <frederick@...> wrote:

This policy is going to exclude a lot of people who are at risk from harassment. A significant number of people use pseudonyms today. We should consider revising this policy. Perhaps there is a path where we can allow people to register their pseudonym to help balance privacy and legal protection of the projects.

On Sun, Jul 3, 2022 at 2:23 PM Christoph Blecker <cblecker@...> wrote:

This isn't so much a question, as it is a request for the CNCF/TOC to review and possibly reverse this policy. While I and many others choose to use their legal name when contributing to projects, there are many reasons why someone might choose to use a pseudonym while contributing. Examples of some of those reasons and the harm that a "real names" policy can create are discussed in the EFF's open letter to Facebook, when Facebook introduced their real name policy in 2015 [1].

Pseudonyms are also used regularly when publishing copyrighted works. When used in the book publishing industry, they are commonly known as "pen names". The U.S. Copyright Office [2] (where the CNCF is based) and the Canadian Intellectual Property Office [3] (where I am personally based) both affirm that use of a pseudonym is permitted.

I'm sure there are others who have more expertise in the subject who could provide more reasons and context, but I personally feel like this is an unnecessary barrier to contribution and may exclude talented contributors from our projects.

Cheers,
Christoph Blecker

[1]: https://www.eff.org/document/open-letter-facebook-about-its-real-names-policy
[2]: https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ32.pdf
[3]: https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/h_wr02281.html?Open&wt_src=cipo-cpyrght-main&wt_cxt=learn#copyrightInformation


On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 3:04 PM Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...> wrote:

Hi Folks,

There was a query from one of the projects about Pseudonyms for DCO and CLA. The CNCF staff has clarified the current policy:
- https://github.com/cncf/foundation/issues/379
- https://github.com/cncf/toc/commit/4b5d5049bce9719bff4b10939389204bc0493557

If you have any questions related to this policy, please chime in.

thanks,
Dims

--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims
--
Gareth Rushgrove
@garethr

garethr.dev
devopsweekly.com


Re: Real Name Policy for CNCF

Frederick Kautz
 

This policy is going to exclude a lot of people who are at risk from harassment. A significant number of people use pseudonyms today. We should consider revising this policy. Perhaps there is a path where we can allow people to register their pseudonym to help balance privacy and legal protection of the projects.

On Sun, Jul 3, 2022 at 2:23 PM Christoph Blecker <cblecker@...> wrote:
This isn't so much a question, as it is a request for the CNCF/TOC to review and possibly reverse this policy. While I and many others choose to use their legal name when contributing to projects, there are many reasons why someone might choose to use a pseudonym while contributing. Examples of some of those reasons and the harm that a "real names" policy can create are discussed in the EFF's open letter to Facebook, when Facebook introduced their real name policy in 2015 [1].

Pseudonyms are also used regularly when publishing copyrighted works. When used in the book publishing industry, they are commonly known as "pen names". The U.S. Copyright Office [2] (where the CNCF is based) and the Canadian Intellectual Property Office [3] (where I am personally based) both affirm that use of a pseudonym is permitted.

I'm sure there are others who have more expertise in the subject who could provide more reasons and context, but I personally feel like this is an unnecessary barrier to contribution and may exclude talented contributors from our projects.

Cheers,

On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 3:04 PM Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...> wrote:
Hi Folks,

There was a query from one of the projects about Pseudonyms for DCO and CLA. The CNCF staff has clarified the current policy:
https://github.com/cncf/toc/commit/4b5d5049bce9719bff4b10939389204bc0493557

If you have any questions related to this policy, please chime in.

thanks,
Dims

--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


[RESULT] CubeFS (formerly known as ChubaoFS) passed for incubation

Amye Scavarda Perrin
 


Re: Real Name Policy for CNCF

Christoph Blecker
 

This isn't so much a question, as it is a request for the CNCF/TOC to review and possibly reverse this policy. While I and many others choose to use their legal name when contributing to projects, there are many reasons why someone might choose to use a pseudonym while contributing. Examples of some of those reasons and the harm that a "real names" policy can create are discussed in the EFF's open letter to Facebook, when Facebook introduced their real name policy in 2015 [1].

Pseudonyms are also used regularly when publishing copyrighted works. When used in the book publishing industry, they are commonly known as "pen names". The U.S. Copyright Office [2] (where the CNCF is based) and the Canadian Intellectual Property Office [3] (where I am personally based) both affirm that use of a pseudonym is permitted.

I'm sure there are others who have more expertise in the subject who could provide more reasons and context, but I personally feel like this is an unnecessary barrier to contribution and may exclude talented contributors from our projects.

Cheers,

On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 3:04 PM Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...> wrote:
Hi Folks,

There was a query from one of the projects about Pseudonyms for DCO and CLA. The CNCF staff has clarified the current policy:
https://github.com/cncf/toc/commit/4b5d5049bce9719bff4b10939389204bc0493557

If you have any questions related to this policy, please chime in.

thanks,
Dims

--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Real Name Policy for CNCF

Davanum Srinivas
 

Hi Folks,

There was a query from one of the projects about Pseudonyms for DCO and CLA. The CNCF staff has clarified the current policy:
https://github.com/cncf/toc/commit/4b5d5049bce9719bff4b10939389204bc0493557

If you have any questions related to this policy, please chime in.

thanks,
Dims

--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Re: Mentoring WG for Approval

Davanum Srinivas
 

Just reviewed. LGTM Josh. Thanks for wrapping it up.

-- Dims


On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 11:59 AM Josh Berkus <jberkus@...> wrote:
Dims, Kate, Matt, all:

Here's the final on the charter for the Mentoring WG:

https://github.com/cncf/tag-contributor-strategy/pull/188

Once you approve this, I'll update references elsewhere.

--
-- Josh Berkus
    Kubernetes Community Architect
    OSPO, OCTO








--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


Mentoring WG for Approval

Josh Berkus
 

Dims, Kate, Matt, all:

Here's the final on the charter for the Mentoring WG:

https://github.com/cncf/tag-contributor-strategy/pull/188

Once you approve this, I'll update references elsewhere.

--
-- Josh Berkus
Kubernetes Community Architect
OSPO, OCTO

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