Date   

Re: TOC call: this week & next week

Brian Grant
 

Is there an agenda for today's meeting?

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 5:34 AM, Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
Hi all,

I am going to be on a plane during next week's TOC call.  Please could a TOC member volunteer to chair the call next week?

Thank-you all for the call yesterday.  I wanted to say that I'm really pleased with how we are interacting as a group.  Yes, we have already found some things to disagree about!  But we are still getting to know each other and figuring out assumptions and expectations.  That will take a little time.  For me, what is more important is that we seem to have consensus on the priority of establishing a base of *good open source software projects*.  Perhaps I am stating the obvious there.  Yet we could so easily have picked a different battle to fight first -- something at one remove from focus on the projects. 

To make sure that CNCF attracts such projects, I'd really like us to focus on the question "How can we help?"

Would it be possible to start the ball rolling on this next week?  

We can return to other topics later, those being: discussion of assumptions around interoperability and 'what can be a project', plus working groups and so on.  

alexis









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Re: an interesting read, about "Cloud Native"

Brian Grant
 

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 5:57 AM, Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
Hi all,

Not too long ago Joe Beda wrote an interesting doc about "Cloud Native".  I have his permission to share it, and so I am posting a URL below. 

I bring this to your attention because it may help us think about how to define "cloud native" for prospective projects and end users.   Obviously this is Joe's take on things.  What do others think?


alexis

Our mission is currently defined more natively than Joe's definition of "cloud native":

The mission is described in terms of mechanisms rather than goals: containers, dynamic management, micro-services.

To me, "cloud native" implies turn-key/self-service/automated provisioning, predictable/reproducible deployment, elastic scaling, self-healing, automatic discovery, and automatic monitoring. These properties increase the velocity of application delivery and management scalability (i.e., manage N things as easily as 1).

ssh-ing into an instance to configure it manually in a non-reproducible fashion, manually creating a configuration file listing IP addresses of specific instances, and crashing if a dependency is not reachable are examples that don't quality as "cloud native".

Are containers more "cloud native" than VMs? Unless we want to change our mission/charter, this question doesn't really matter, but containers do facilitate higher-level and more automated management and introspection. VMs are by nature more opaque and responsible for more of the application lifecycle. However, we may consider a number of projects (e.g., Prometheus) that could be used equally well with either containers or VMs.

On DevOps: Joe mentions that developers are incentivized to make their applications production-ready, but one thing that's not made clear enough is that developers are responsible for meeting operational requirements: reliability, availability, scalability, efficiency, liveness and readiness signals, exported metrics, actionable logging, termination/signal handling, self-configuration based on the environment, configuration knobs exposed to operators, compatibility with the production environment, ... Failure to meet these requirements is a bug. Operators are both partners and customers.



Re: [cncf-marketing] OSCON Open Container Day OCI/CNCF Panel

Sarah Saul <ssaul@...>
 

For reference for the TOC list since this was sent to the marketing mailing list. 



Sent with Mixmax


On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 6:12 PM, Diane Mueller-Klingspor dmueller@... wrote:
The panel was not accepted by O'Reilly. I sent an earlier email to the list

Diane

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Jonathan Boulle via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
I'm not sure how my name got on there - I won't be attending the conference.

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 9:27 PM, Sarah Saul via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
Hi Kiersten,

I believe it's a full panel. Diane can confirm if anyone has dropped or if Ben could be a backup. I have the below folks listed for the panel:

Chris Aniscyzk, Linux Foundation, Developer Relations
Vincent Batts, OCI TDC Member (Red Hat)
Patrick Chanzeon, OCI TDC Member (Docker)
Jonathan Bouille, CNCF TOC Member (CoreOS & founder of RKT project)

Sarah Saul
Client Services Manager
The Linux Foundation
Skype: srsaul

On Apr 27, 2016, at 1:20 PM, Kiersten Gaffney <kiersten@...> wrote:

Hello Sarah,

Please keep myself, Kim and RJ in the loop on Ben's participation at the Open Container Day. 

Have any further emails gone out about this? Please share.

Best,
Kiersten


----
Kiersten Gaffney
Senior Manager, Events @ Mesosphere

On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Benjamin Hindman <benh@...> wrote:
I told them I'd be there and happy to join as a panelist. What else if anything are we doing for/at OSCON?


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Benjamin Hindman <benh@...>
Date: Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: [cncf-toc] Fwd: [cncf-marketing] OSCON Open Container Day OCI/CNCF Panel
To: Sarah Saul <ssaul@...>
Cc: cncf-toc@..., Diane Mueller-Klingspor <dmueller@...>


I'll be there and happy to join as a panelist.

On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Sarah Saul via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
FYI on Open Container Day. Would anyone from the TOC be able to attend this event and be willing to participate as a panelist?

Diane is looking for someone by Monday so we'll need to move quickly.

Thanks,
Sarah

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Diane Mueller-Klingspor via cncf-marketing <cncf-marketing@...>
Date: Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 10:14 AM
Subject: [cncf-marketing] OSCON Open Container Day OCI/CNCF Panel
To: cncf-marketing@..., Douglas Nassaur <dn283x@...>, Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...>


All,

I'm organizing a panel for OSCON's Open Container Day and would like to have 1-2 CNCF TOC reps on the panel along with 1-2 reps from OCI. Chris Anisczyk has offered himself up already. I'd like to have a TOC rep as well. 

Can you all help me reach out to the TOC members to see who from the list below is coming to OSCON and willing to be a panelist? I haven't the emails for most of these folks and I'm not on the TOC's mailing list. 

The event is in Austin May 17th. 

Alexis R has already said, he not planning on coming to OSCON

Here's the list:
  • Jonathan Boulle, founder of the RKT project and team lead at CoreOS

  • Bryan Cantrill, chief technology officer at Joyent;

  • Camille Fournier, ZooKeeper PMC member, committer;

  • Benjamin Hindman, Apache Mesos co-creator, founder and chief architect at Mesosphere;

  • Ken Owens, chief technology officer of cloud services at Cisco; and

  • Alexis Richardson, founder of Weave and chief executive officer at WeaveWorks.




--
Kind Regards,

Diane Mueller
Director, Community Development
Red Hat OpenShift
@openshiftcommons

We have more in Common than you know, learn more at http://commons.openshift.org


_______________________________________________
cncf-marketing mailing list
cncf-marketing@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-marketing




--
Sarah Saul
Client Services Manager
The Linux Foundation
Skype: srsaul

_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc




--
Benjamin Hindman
Founder of Mesosphere and Co-Creator of Apache Mesos

Follow us on Twitter: @mesosphere



--
Benjamin Hindman
Founder of Mesosphere and Co-Creator of Apache Mesos

Follow us on Twitter: @mesosphere


_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
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_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
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--
Kind Regards,

Diane Mueller
Director, Community Development
Red Hat OpenShift
@openshiftcommons

We have more in Common than you know, learn more at http://commons.openshift.org



Sarah Saul
Client Services Manager
The Linux Foundation
(M) 520-245-5185
Skype: srsaul


Re: [cncf-marketing] OSCON Open Container Day OCI/CNCF Panel

Diane Mueller
 

The panel was not accepted by O'Reilly. I sent an earlier email to the list

Diane

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Jonathan Boulle via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
I'm not sure how my name got on there - I won't be attending the conference.

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 9:27 PM, Sarah Saul via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
Hi Kiersten,

I believe it's a full panel. Diane can confirm if anyone has dropped or if Ben could be a backup. I have the below folks listed for the panel:

Chris Aniscyzk, Linux Foundation, Developer Relations
Vincent Batts, OCI TDC Member (Red Hat)
Patrick Chanzeon, OCI TDC Member (Docker)
Jonathan Bouille, CNCF TOC Member (CoreOS & founder of RKT project)

Sarah Saul
Client Services Manager
The Linux Foundation
Skype: srsaul

On Apr 27, 2016, at 1:20 PM, Kiersten Gaffney <kiersten@...> wrote:

Hello Sarah,

Please keep myself, Kim and RJ in the loop on Ben's participation at the Open Container Day. 

Have any further emails gone out about this? Please share.

Best,
Kiersten


----
Kiersten Gaffney
Senior Manager, Events @ Mesosphere

On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Benjamin Hindman <benh@...> wrote:
I told them I'd be there and happy to join as a panelist. What else if anything are we doing for/at OSCON?


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Benjamin Hindman <benh@...>
Date: Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: [cncf-toc] Fwd: [cncf-marketing] OSCON Open Container Day OCI/CNCF Panel
To: Sarah Saul <ssaul@...>
Cc: cncf-toc@..., Diane Mueller-Klingspor <dmueller@...>


I'll be there and happy to join as a panelist.

On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Sarah Saul via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
FYI on Open Container Day. Would anyone from the TOC be able to attend this event and be willing to participate as a panelist?

Diane is looking for someone by Monday so we'll need to move quickly.

Thanks,
Sarah

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Diane Mueller-Klingspor via cncf-marketing <cncf-marketing@...>
Date: Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 10:14 AM
Subject: [cncf-marketing] OSCON Open Container Day OCI/CNCF Panel
To: cncf-marketing@..., Douglas Nassaur <dn283x@...>, Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...>


All,

I'm organizing a panel for OSCON's Open Container Day and would like to have 1-2 CNCF TOC reps on the panel along with 1-2 reps from OCI. Chris Anisczyk has offered himself up already. I'd like to have a TOC rep as well. 

Can you all help me reach out to the TOC members to see who from the list below is coming to OSCON and willing to be a panelist? I haven't the emails for most of these folks and I'm not on the TOC's mailing list. 

The event is in Austin May 17th. 

Alexis R has already said, he not planning on coming to OSCON

Here's the list:
  • Jonathan Boulle, founder of the RKT project and team lead at CoreOS

  • Bryan Cantrill, chief technology officer at Joyent;

  • Camille Fournier, ZooKeeper PMC member, committer;

  • Benjamin Hindman, Apache Mesos co-creator, founder and chief architect at Mesosphere;

  • Ken Owens, chief technology officer of cloud services at Cisco; and

  • Alexis Richardson, founder of Weave and chief executive officer at WeaveWorks.




--
Kind Regards,

Diane Mueller
Director, Community Development
Red Hat OpenShift
@openshiftcommons

We have more in Common than you know, learn more at http://commons.openshift.org


_______________________________________________
cncf-marketing mailing list
cncf-marketing@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-marketing




--
Sarah Saul
Client Services Manager
The Linux Foundation
Skype: srsaul

_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc




--
Benjamin Hindman
Founder of Mesosphere and Co-Creator of Apache Mesos

Follow us on Twitter: @mesosphere



--
Benjamin Hindman
Founder of Mesosphere and Co-Creator of Apache Mesos

Follow us on Twitter: @mesosphere


_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc



_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc




--
Kind Regards,

Diane Mueller
Director, Community Development
Red Hat OpenShift
@openshiftcommons

We have more in Common than you know, learn more at http://commons.openshift.org


Re: [cncf-marketing] OSCON Open Container Day OCI/CNCF Panel

Jonathan Boulle <jonathan.boulle@...>
 

I'm not sure how my name got on there - I won't be attending the conference.

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 9:27 PM, Sarah Saul via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
Hi Kiersten,

I believe it's a full panel. Diane can confirm if anyone has dropped or if Ben could be a backup. I have the below folks listed for the panel:

Chris Aniscyzk, Linux Foundation, Developer Relations
Vincent Batts, OCI TDC Member (Red Hat)
Patrick Chanzeon, OCI TDC Member (Docker)
Jonathan Bouille, CNCF TOC Member (CoreOS & founder of RKT project)

Sarah Saul
Client Services Manager
The Linux Foundation
Skype: srsaul

On Apr 27, 2016, at 1:20 PM, Kiersten Gaffney <kiersten@...> wrote:

Hello Sarah,

Please keep myself, Kim and RJ in the loop on Ben's participation at the Open Container Day. 

Have any further emails gone out about this? Please share.

Best,
Kiersten


----
Kiersten Gaffney
Senior Manager, Events @ Mesosphere

On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Benjamin Hindman <benh@...> wrote:
I told them I'd be there and happy to join as a panelist. What else if anything are we doing for/at OSCON?


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Benjamin Hindman <benh@...>
Date: Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: [cncf-toc] Fwd: [cncf-marketing] OSCON Open Container Day OCI/CNCF Panel
To: Sarah Saul <ssaul@...>
Cc: cncf-toc@..., Diane Mueller-Klingspor <dmueller@...>


I'll be there and happy to join as a panelist.

On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Sarah Saul via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
FYI on Open Container Day. Would anyone from the TOC be able to attend this event and be willing to participate as a panelist?

Diane is looking for someone by Monday so we'll need to move quickly.

Thanks,
Sarah

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Diane Mueller-Klingspor via cncf-marketing <cncf-marketing@...>
Date: Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 10:14 AM
Subject: [cncf-marketing] OSCON Open Container Day OCI/CNCF Panel
To: cncf-marketing@..., Douglas Nassaur <dn283x@...>, Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...>


All,

I'm organizing a panel for OSCON's Open Container Day and would like to have 1-2 CNCF TOC reps on the panel along with 1-2 reps from OCI. Chris Anisczyk has offered himself up already. I'd like to have a TOC rep as well. 

Can you all help me reach out to the TOC members to see who from the list below is coming to OSCON and willing to be a panelist? I haven't the emails for most of these folks and I'm not on the TOC's mailing list. 

The event is in Austin May 17th. 

Alexis R has already said, he not planning on coming to OSCON

Here's the list:
  • Jonathan Boulle, founder of the RKT project and team lead at CoreOS

  • Bryan Cantrill, chief technology officer at Joyent;

  • Camille Fournier, ZooKeeper PMC member, committer;

  • Benjamin Hindman, Apache Mesos co-creator, founder and chief architect at Mesosphere;

  • Ken Owens, chief technology officer of cloud services at Cisco; and

  • Alexis Richardson, founder of Weave and chief executive officer at WeaveWorks.




--
Kind Regards,

Diane Mueller
Director, Community Development
Red Hat OpenShift
@openshiftcommons

We have more in Common than you know, learn more at http://commons.openshift.org


_______________________________________________
cncf-marketing mailing list
cncf-marketing@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-marketing




--
Sarah Saul
Client Services Manager
The Linux Foundation
Skype: srsaul

_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc




--
Benjamin Hindman
Founder of Mesosphere and Co-Creator of Apache Mesos

Follow us on Twitter: @mesosphere



--
Benjamin Hindman
Founder of Mesosphere and Co-Creator of Apache Mesos

Follow us on Twitter: @mesosphere


_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc



Re: [cncf-marketing] OSCON Open Container Day OCI/CNCF Panel

Sarah Saul <ssaul@...>
 

Hi Kiersten,

I believe it's a full panel. Diane can confirm if anyone has dropped or if Ben could be a backup. I have the below folks listed for the panel:

Chris Aniscyzk, Linux Foundation, Developer Relations
Vincent Batts, OCI TDC Member (Red Hat)
Patrick Chanzeon, OCI TDC Member (Docker)
Jonathan Bouille, CNCF TOC Member (CoreOS & founder of RKT project)

Sarah Saul
Client Services Manager
The Linux Foundation
Skype: srsaul

On Apr 27, 2016, at 1:20 PM, Kiersten Gaffney <kiersten@...> wrote:

Hello Sarah,

Please keep myself, Kim and RJ in the loop on Ben's participation at the Open Container Day. 

Have any further emails gone out about this? Please share.

Best,
Kiersten


----
Kiersten Gaffney
Senior Manager, Events @ Mesosphere
Cell: 415-559-3771

On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Benjamin Hindman <benh@...> wrote:
I told them I'd be there and happy to join as a panelist. What else if anything are we doing for/at OSCON?


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Benjamin Hindman <benh@...>
Date: Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: [cncf-toc] Fwd: [cncf-marketing] OSCON Open Container Day OCI/CNCF Panel
To: Sarah Saul <ssaul@...>
Cc: cncf-toc@..., Diane Mueller-Klingspor <dmueller@...>


I'll be there and happy to join as a panelist.

On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Sarah Saul via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
FYI on Open Container Day. Would anyone from the TOC be able to attend this event and be willing to participate as a panelist?

Diane is looking for someone by Monday so we'll need to move quickly.

Thanks,
Sarah

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Diane Mueller-Klingspor via cncf-marketing <cncf-marketing@...>
Date: Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 10:14 AM
Subject: [cncf-marketing] OSCON Open Container Day OCI/CNCF Panel
To: cncf-marketing@..., Douglas Nassaur <dn283x@...>, Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...>


All,

I'm organizing a panel for OSCON's Open Container Day and would like to have 1-2 CNCF TOC reps on the panel along with 1-2 reps from OCI. Chris Anisczyk has offered himself up already. I'd like to have a TOC rep as well. 

Can you all help me reach out to the TOC members to see who from the list below is coming to OSCON and willing to be a panelist? I haven't the emails for most of these folks and I'm not on the TOC's mailing list. 

The event is in Austin May 17th. 

Alexis R has already said, he not planning on coming to OSCON

Here's the list:
  • Jonathan Boulle, founder of the RKT project and team lead at CoreOS

  • Bryan Cantrill, chief technology officer at Joyent;

  • Camille Fournier, ZooKeeper PMC member, committer;

  • Benjamin Hindman, Apache Mesos co-creator, founder and chief architect at Mesosphere;

  • Ken Owens, chief technology officer of cloud services at Cisco; and

  • Alexis Richardson, founder of Weave and chief executive officer at WeaveWorks.




--
Kind Regards,

Diane Mueller
Director, Community Development
Red Hat OpenShift
@openshiftcommons

We have more in Common than you know, learn more at http://commons.openshift.org


_______________________________________________
cncf-marketing mailing list
cncf-marketing@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-marketing




--
Sarah Saul
Client Services Manager
The Linux Foundation
Skype: srsaul

_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc




--
Benjamin Hindman
Founder of Mesosphere and Co-Creator of Apache Mesos

Follow us on Twitter: @mesosphere



--
Benjamin Hindman
Founder of Mesosphere and Co-Creator of Apache Mesos

Follow us on Twitter: @mesosphere


Re: CNI discussion - actions

alexis richardson
 

+1


On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 19:35 Brian Grant via cncf-toc, <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Stefan Junker via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
Hi,

I’m one of the maintainers of CNI. I was on the CNCF call yesterday
during which understood only TOC members should state their opinion, so
I decided to just listen and write down my thoughts afterwards.

Although CNI is a small project it has been around for a while, and
since I joined, the goal has transitioned away from the initial
statement which was still captured in the README. Shortly after the call
I submitted a small but significant change [1] which I hope will clarify
the position of the project.

We, the maintainers, don’t want to make CNI a blessed standard. Instead,
we hold great value in the specification that has already allowed many
projects to use the flexible plugin system for developing and
interconnecting simple to complex container networking solutions.

Our hope is that the CNCF provides a stable, vendor-neutral brand and
home to foster these values, so that even more developers feel
comfortable to help improve the quality of existing code and upstream
their plugin code.

As a next step, for now, if you'd like to create a more neutral brand, I recommend moving the project to its own github org. Practically speaking, that would make the project easier to manage, also.

 

Thanks for your attention! I will also be happy to answer any questions
that the TOC has about the project.

Stefan Junker

[1]: https://github.com/appc/cni/pull/186


_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
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Re: CNI discussion - actions

Brian Grant
 

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Stefan Junker via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
Hi,

I’m one of the maintainers of CNI. I was on the CNCF call yesterday
during which understood only TOC members should state their opinion, so
I decided to just listen and write down my thoughts afterwards.

Although CNI is a small project it has been around for a while, and
since I joined, the goal has transitioned away from the initial
statement which was still captured in the README. Shortly after the call
I submitted a small but significant change [1] which I hope will clarify
the position of the project.

We, the maintainers, don’t want to make CNI a blessed standard. Instead,
we hold great value in the specification that has already allowed many
projects to use the flexible plugin system for developing and
interconnecting simple to complex container networking solutions.

Our hope is that the CNCF provides a stable, vendor-neutral brand and
home to foster these values, so that even more developers feel
comfortable to help improve the quality of existing code and upstream
their plugin code.

As a next step, for now, if you'd like to create a more neutral brand, I recommend moving the project to its own github org. Practically speaking, that would make the project easier to manage, also.

 

Thanks for your attention! I will also be happy to answer any questions
that the TOC has about the project.

Stefan Junker

[1]: https://github.com/appc/cni/pull/186


_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc



Re: [cncf-marketing] OSCON Open Container Day OCI/CNCF Panel

Kiersten Gaffney <kiersten@...>
 

Hello Sarah,

Please keep myself, Kim and RJ in the loop on Ben's participation at the Open Container Day. 

Have any further emails gone out about this? Please share.

Best,
Kiersten


----
Kiersten Gaffney
Senior Manager, Events @ Mesosphere
Cell: 415-559-3771

On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Benjamin Hindman <benh@...> wrote:
I told them I'd be there and happy to join as a panelist. What else if anything are we doing for/at OSCON?


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Benjamin Hindman <benh@...>
Date: Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: [cncf-toc] Fwd: [cncf-marketing] OSCON Open Container Day OCI/CNCF Panel
To: Sarah Saul <ssaul@...>
Cc: cncf-toc@..., Diane Mueller-Klingspor <dmueller@...>


I'll be there and happy to join as a panelist.

On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Sarah Saul via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
FYI on Open Container Day. Would anyone from the TOC be able to attend this event and be willing to participate as a panelist?

Diane is looking for someone by Monday so we'll need to move quickly.

Thanks,
Sarah

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Diane Mueller-Klingspor via cncf-marketing <cncf-marketing@...>
Date: Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 10:14 AM
Subject: [cncf-marketing] OSCON Open Container Day OCI/CNCF Panel
To: cncf-marketing@..., Douglas Nassaur <dn283x@...>, Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk@...>


All,

I'm organizing a panel for OSCON's Open Container Day and would like to have 1-2 CNCF TOC reps on the panel along with 1-2 reps from OCI. Chris Anisczyk has offered himself up already. I'd like to have a TOC rep as well. 

Can you all help me reach out to the TOC members to see who from the list below is coming to OSCON and willing to be a panelist? I haven't the emails for most of these folks and I'm not on the TOC's mailing list. 

The event is in Austin May 17th. 

Alexis R has already said, he not planning on coming to OSCON

Here's the list:
  • Jonathan Boulle, founder of the RKT project and team lead at CoreOS

  • Bryan Cantrill, chief technology officer at Joyent;

  • Camille Fournier, ZooKeeper PMC member, committer;

  • Benjamin Hindman, Apache Mesos co-creator, founder and chief architect at Mesosphere;

  • Ken Owens, chief technology officer of cloud services at Cisco; and

  • Alexis Richardson, founder of Weave and chief executive officer at WeaveWorks.




--
Kind Regards,

Diane Mueller
Director, Community Development
Red Hat OpenShift
@openshiftcommons

We have more in Common than you know, learn more at http://commons.openshift.org


_______________________________________________
cncf-marketing mailing list
cncf-marketing@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-marketing




--
Sarah Saul
Client Services Manager
The Linux Foundation
Skype: srsaul

_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc




--
Benjamin Hindman
Founder of Mesosphere and Co-Creator of Apache Mesos

Follow us on Twitter: @mesosphere



--
Benjamin Hindman
Founder of Mesosphere and Co-Creator of Apache Mesos

Follow us on Twitter: @mesosphere


requests /// no TOC call this week

alexis richardson
 

All,

There will be no TOC call this week, because quite a few people are travelling.

A few asks, please:

1.  Can we have a vote on Prometheus in the next few weeks?  Please speak up if you'd like more discussion.  I'll interpret silence as assent ;-)

2.  Towards working with more projects, I'm now going to focus on the "how CNCF can help" discussion.  Please could people email me with thoughts.

3. Chris A asks if there are comments on the WG proposal.  I think this will need further discussion, but it would help to finalise the proposal in the meantime.

alexis


Re: CNI discussion - actions

alexis richardson
 

Doug

I think the main worry is "ex ante and de jure standards", i.e.:
- created ahead of real adoption & maturation of use cases
- by a legislature with wide authority 

I know that Craig liked to say the TOC was like the supreme court (!) for CNCF, but I think we need to be very humble about our reach.

I am OK with standards emerging "ex post and de re".  After the fact, and as a matter of fact.

That doesn't mean we cannot have interop & glue & documents in the CNCF.  We just need to figure out how to do that.  Carefully.

a




On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 8:14 PM, Doug Davis <dug@...> wrote:

re: topic "A" - acceptable CNCF projects

IMO the CNCF should allow a variety of types of projects. Ranging from ones that are pure "code" to ones that are just "specifications". While pure spec projects aren't nearly as interesting to me, I'm not comfortable with the idea what we outright ban them. They do have a place in the bigger picture especially if people want to use CNCF as a place to do harmonization type of work and trying to develop a joint spec is the first step in that process.

I'd prefer if we looked for ways to include more projects (as long as they fit the technical aspects of CNCF's scope), instead of trying to define a high bar for acceptance. We're supposed to be here to help/promote CN technology, in all its forms.


re: CNI

To the CNI issues mentioned yesterday, personally, I don't think it matters that in its README CNI mentioned wanting to be a standard. Its interesting that it has since been removed, but given that CNCF is not a standards producing body that sentence meant nothing to me. In fact, if the authors of a spec that's under the CNCF umbrella wanted to take it to w3c, oasis, ietf, etc... to get that formal standardization, that's their choice and IMO shouldn't impact whether they can remain a CNCF project. To imply that a spec that's been developed under CNCF can not be taken down that path feels pretty limiting and should be out of the CNCF's control. In fact, I would argue that if a CNCF spec was so popular and widely adopted that it became a "real standard" it would actually be a good thing and would show CNCF's value over the traditional paper-only standards process.

Let's evaluate CNI on whether its within the scope of CNCF's CN work, and whether the benefits to both sides makes sense.


thanks
-Doug Davis
_______________________________________________________
STSM | IBM Open Source, Cloud Architecture & Technology
(919) 254-6905 | IBM 444-6905 | dug@...
The more I'm around some people, the more I like my dog

Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc ---04/20/2016 12:03:18 PM---All, Issues I heard today:

From: Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...>
To: cncf-toc@...
Date: 04/20/2016 12:03 PM
Subject: [cncf-toc] CNI discussion - actions
Sent by: cncf-toc-bounces@...





All,

Issues I heard today:

1. would be good to talk about some fundamental assumptions about what we think about standards (which is part of the OCI mandate) - suggest we involve the GB in this.  also: there are related topics - service broker, volumes... E.g.: the TOC needs to decide if a project can be "just a spec", or does it need to be "mainly code that just happens to have a spec".

2. invite some CNI stakeholders, not on TOC, to give us the "project point of view" -- eg metaswitch, redhat?

3. perception, brand and timing are issues; would be good to get some more projects on board that aren't 'glue' or 'interface' type things.


Summary:

So let's separate the discussion:  

A) type of acceptable work/projects in CNCF 
vs  
B) is CNI a good fit.   

We need to resolve A independently of B, and can get going first on A.   But, eg in parallel, I think it would be fair to hear from a CNI lead (or two) who is not on TOC.

alexis

_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc




Re: CNI discussion - actions

Chris Aniszczyk
 

On top of what Doug said, I'd like to remind the TOC on what's in the charter currently around projects (section 9):
https://cncf.io/governance

9. CNCF Projects

(a) It is expected that member companies, and open source community members will bring project assets to the TOC for discussion and inclusion into the CNCF. All such contributions should meet a set criteria created by the TOC and ratified by the Governing Board. The goal is to have an increasing bazaar of projects related to and that integrate with projects already accepted into the CNCF.
(b) Projects can be associated with the CNCF in the following 3 ways:

i. Included in CNCF, under a neutral home for collaboration

a. All aspects of the project are governed by the CNCF
b. The project is marketed by the CNCF as a CNCF project
c. The project should be a core functional component of the CNCF solution. (e.g. such as Kubernetes, Mesos, etcd, etc.)

ii. Associated with the CNCF via an API or specification

a. Includes components where the CNCF may offer or enable multiple options
b. The project is referred to as a component that the CNCF integrates with, not as a project hosted by the CNCF
c. Integration and compliance are defined by an API or specification
d. Active development on the project or component is ideally done in the upstream community

iii. Used by the CNCF

a. A project or component that is completely licensed under an OSI approved open source license and is well managed and used as a component in the CNCF
b. Project is not actively marketed by the CNCF,
c. Active development on the project or component is ideally done in the upstream community

(c) Existing open source projects should continue to run through their existing technical governance structure to maintain cohesion and velocity. Projects approved by the TOC for inclusion in the CNCF will be ‘lightly’ subject to the Technical Oversight
Committee.
(d) A standard protocol to achieve committer status shall be established across projects based on an individual’s level and duration of contribution. Maintainer status is achieved through contribution to a given project over time and validation by peer
committers.
(e) New open source projects initiated in CNCF shall complete a project proposal template adopted by the TOC and be approved by the TOC for inclusion in CNCF. The TOC members shall be afforded sufficient time to discuss and review new project proposals. New project proposals shall include details of the roles in the project, the governance proposed for the project and identify alignment with CNCF’s role and values.


On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 2:14 PM, Doug Davis via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:

re: topic "A" - acceptable CNCF projects

IMO the CNCF should allow a variety of types of projects. Ranging from ones that are pure "code" to ones that are just "specifications". While pure spec projects aren't nearly as interesting to me, I'm not comfortable with the idea what we outright ban them. They do have a place in the bigger picture especially if people want to use CNCF as a place to do harmonization type of work and trying to develop a joint spec is the first step in that process.

I'd prefer if we looked for ways to include more projects (as long as they fit the technical aspects of CNCF's scope), instead of trying to define a high bar for acceptance. We're supposed to be here to help/promote CN technology, in all its forms.


re: CNI

To the CNI issues mentioned yesterday, personally, I don't think it matters that in its README CNI mentioned wanting to be a standard. Its interesting that it has since been removed, but given that CNCF is not a standards producing body that sentence meant nothing to me. In fact, if the authors of a spec that's under the CNCF umbrella wanted to take it to w3c, oasis, ietf, etc... to get that formal standardization, that's their choice and IMO shouldn't impact whether they can remain a CNCF project. To imply that a spec that's been developed under CNCF can not be taken down that path feels pretty limiting and should be out of the CNCF's control. In fact, I would argue that if a CNCF spec was so popular and widely adopted that it became a "real standard" it would actually be a good thing and would show CNCF's value over the traditional paper-only standards process.

Let's evaluate CNI on whether its within the scope of CNCF's CN work, and whether the benefits to both sides makes sense.


thanks
-Doug Davis
_______________________________________________________
STSM | IBM Open Source, Cloud Architecture & Technology
(919) 254-6905 | IBM 444-6905 | dug@...
The more I'm around some people, the more I like my dog

Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc ---04/20/2016 12:03:18 PM---All, Issues I heard today:

From: Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...>
To: cncf-toc@...
Date: 04/20/2016 12:03 PM
Subject: [cncf-toc] CNI discussion - actions
Sent by: cncf-toc-bounces@...





All,

Issues I heard today:

1. would be good to talk about some fundamental assumptions about what we think about standards (which is part of the OCI mandate) - suggest we involve the GB in this.  also: there are related topics - service broker, volumes... E.g.: the TOC needs to decide if a project can be "just a spec", or does it need to be "mainly code that just happens to have a spec".

2. invite some CNI stakeholders, not on TOC, to give us the "project point of view" -- eg metaswitch, redhat?

3. perception, brand and timing are issues; would be good to get some more projects on board that aren't 'glue' or 'interface' type things.


Summary:

So let's separate the discussion:  

A) type of acceptable work/projects in CNCF 
vs  
B) is CNI a good fit.   

We need to resolve A independently of B, and can get going first on A.   But, eg in parallel, I think it would be fair to hear from a CNI lead (or two) who is not on TOC.

alexis

_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc



_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc




--
Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719


CNI discussion - actions

Doug Davis <dug@...>
 

re: topic "A" - acceptable CNCF projects

IMO the CNCF should allow a variety of types of projects. Ranging from ones that are pure "code" to ones that are just "specifications". While pure spec projects aren't nearly as interesting to me, I'm not comfortable with the idea what we outright ban them. They do have a place in the bigger picture especially if people want to use CNCF as a place to do harmonization type of work and trying to develop a joint spec is the first step in that process.

I'd prefer if we looked for ways to include more projects (as long as they fit the technical aspects of CNCF's scope), instead of trying to define a high bar for acceptance. We're supposed to be here to help/promote CN technology, in all its forms.


re: CNI

To the CNI issues mentioned yesterday, personally, I don't think it matters that in its README CNI mentioned wanting to be a standard. Its interesting that it has since been removed, but given that CNCF is not a standards producing body that sentence meant nothing to me. In fact, if the authors of a spec that's under the CNCF umbrella wanted to take it to w3c, oasis, ietf, etc... to get that formal standardization, that's their choice and IMO shouldn't impact whether they can remain a CNCF project. To imply that a spec that's been developed under CNCF can not be taken down that path feels pretty limiting and should be out of the CNCF's control. In fact, I would argue that if a CNCF spec was so popular and widely adopted that it became a "real standard" it would actually be a good thing and would show CNCF's value over the traditional paper-only standards process.

Let's evaluate CNI on whether its within the scope of CNCF's CN work, and whether the benefits to both sides makes sense.


thanks
-Doug Davis
_______________________________________________________
STSM | IBM Open Source, Cloud Architecture & Technology
(919) 254-6905 | IBM 444-6905 | dug@...
The more I'm around some people, the more I like my dog

Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc ---04/20/2016 12:03:18 PM---All, Issues I heard today:

From: Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...>
To: cncf-toc@...
Date: 04/20/2016 12:03 PM
Subject: [cncf-toc] CNI discussion - actions
Sent by: cncf-toc-bounces@...





All,

Issues I heard today:

1. would be good to talk about some fundamental assumptions about what we think about standards (which is part of the OCI mandate) - suggest we involve the GB in this.  also: there are related topics - service broker, volumes... E.g.: the TOC needs to decide if a project can be "just a spec", or does it need to be "mainly code that just happens to have a spec".

2. invite some CNI stakeholders, not on TOC, to give us the "project point of view" -- eg metaswitch, redhat?

3. perception, brand and timing are issues; would be good to get some more projects on board that aren't 'glue' or 'interface' type things.


Summary:

So let's separate the discussion:  

A) type of acceptable work/projects in CNCF 
vs  
B) is CNI a good fit.   

We need to resolve A independently of B, and can get going first on A.   But, eg in parallel, I think it would be fair to hear from a CNI lead (or two) who is not on TOC.

alexis

_______________________________________________
cncf-toc mailing list
cncf-toc@...
https://lists.cncf.io/mailman/listinfo/cncf-toc



Re: CNI discussion - actions

Stefan Junker <stefan.junker@...>
 

Hi,

I’m one of the maintainers of CNI. I was on the CNCF call yesterday
during which understood only TOC members should state their opinion, so
I decided to just listen and write down my thoughts afterwards.

Although CNI is a small project it has been around for a while, and
since I joined, the goal has transitioned away from the initial
statement which was still captured in the README. Shortly after the call
I submitted a small but significant change [1] which I hope will clarify
the position of the project.

We, the maintainers, don’t want to make CNI a blessed standard. Instead,
we hold great value in the specification that has already allowed many
projects to use the flexible plugin system for developing and
interconnecting simple to complex container networking solutions.

Our hope is that the CNCF provides a stable, vendor-neutral brand and
home to foster these values, so that even more developers feel
comfortable to help improve the quality of existing code and upstream
their plugin code.

Thanks for your attention! I will also be happy to answer any questions
that the TOC has about the project.

Stefan Junker

[1]: https://github.com/appc/cni/pull/186


an interesting read, about "Cloud Native"

alexis richardson
 

Hi all,

Not too long ago Joe Beda wrote an interesting doc about "Cloud Native".  I have his permission to share it, and so I am posting a URL below. 

I bring this to your attention because it may help us think about how to define "cloud native" for prospective projects and end users.   Obviously this is Joe's take on things.  What do others think?


alexis






TOC call: this week & next week

alexis richardson
 

Hi all,

I am going to be on a plane during next week's TOC call.  Please could a TOC member volunteer to chair the call next week?

Thank-you all for the call yesterday.  I wanted to say that I'm really pleased with how we are interacting as a group.  Yes, we have already found some things to disagree about!  But we are still getting to know each other and figuring out assumptions and expectations.  That will take a little time.  For me, what is more important is that we seem to have consensus on the priority of establishing a base of *good open source software projects*.  Perhaps I am stating the obvious there.  Yet we could so easily have picked a different battle to fight first -- something at one remove from focus on the projects. 

To make sure that CNCF attracts such projects, I'd really like us to focus on the question "How can we help?"

Would it be possible to start the ball rolling on this next week?  

We can return to other topics later, those being: discussion of assumptions around interoperability and 'what can be a project', plus working groups and so on.  

alexis









Discuss/Vote: CNCF Working Groups

Chris Aniszczyk
 

Here's the proposal PR for WGs in CNCF:

The actual simple process:

The first proposed WG around the Service Broker is a WIP, waiting for our finalization of the process: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JnjndNwBB9mct91MLofzNrJwew_MJgwPXlULzrKx14Q/edit#heading=h.32tcpqhictr1

Please comment/vote as I'd love to get something moving:
https://github.com/cncf/toc#voting

--
Chris Aniszczyk (@cra) | +1-512-961-6719


CNI discussion - actions

alexis richardson
 

All,

Issues I heard today:

1. would be good to talk about some fundamental assumptions about what we think about standards (which is part of the OCI mandate) - suggest we involve the GB in this.  also: there are related topics - service broker, volumes... E.g.: the TOC needs to decide if a project can be "just a spec", or does it need to be "mainly code that just happens to have a spec".

2. invite some CNI stakeholders, not on TOC, to give us the "project point of view" -- eg metaswitch, redhat?

3. perception, brand and timing are issues; would be good to get some more projects on board that aren't 'glue' or 'interface' type things.


Summary:

So let's separate the discussion:  

A) type of acceptable work/projects in CNCF 
vs  
B) is CNI a good fit.   

We need to resolve A independently of B, and can get going first on A.   But, eg in parallel, I think it would be fair to hear from a CNI lead (or two) who is not on TOC.

alexis



FW: [oci-members] Reminder: Submit a talk for ContainerCon/ContainerCon Japan!

Kenneth Owens (kenowens) <kenowens@...>
 

Team,

 

I would like to submit a panel proposal to Containercon on What is the CNCF and What we plan to accomplish.

 

Anyone interested in being on the Panel?

 

Kenneth Owens
CTO
Cisco Intercloud Services
kenowens@...
Phone: +1 408 424 0872
Mobile: +1 314 591 5708


Cisco.com

   

 

Think before you print. Think before you print.

This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message.

For corporate legal information go to:
http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html

 

 

From: Sarah Saul [mailto:ssaul@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 8:53 AM
To: oci-members@...
Subject: [oci-members] Reminder: Submit a talk for ContainerCon/ContainerCon Japan!

 

Hello All,

 

Just a reminder that the CFP for ContainerCon North America will close on April 26. 

 

 

Get in your talks while there is still time!

 

ContainerCon Japan is also open for papers as well. Deadline to submit is May 5th.

 

Submit here: http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/containercon-japan/program/cfp

Any questions, reach out directly.

 

Best,

Sarah

 

Sarah Saul

Client Services Manager

The Linux Foundation

Skype: srsaul

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draft slides for TOC meeting tomorrow

alexis richardson
 

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