Re: Interesting tech marketing from Amazon
I think the key message of Cloud-Native should be about its value:
Continuous Development and Operation (Enabling Business Agility/Transformation)
Decomposition to micro-services, stateless, disposable/distributed components, Atomicity .. are the ways by which we achieve that goal, and those may evolve over time. If we want to engage more business owners lets focus on what’s in it for them and the need for a change vs tech buzzwords.
My 2c, Yaron
CTO, iguazio
From: cncf-toc-bounces@... [mailto:cncf-toc-bounces@
lists.cncf.io] On Behalf Of Brian Grant via cncf-toc
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 6:05 AM
To: Andrew Randall <andy@...>
Cc: Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...>
Subject: Re: [cncf-toc] Interesting tech marketing from Amazon
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Andrew Randall via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
I think we should aim for 3 core principles. Any more than that and people won't be able to repeat as a mantra.
Currently the charter has:
- container packaged
- dynamically managed
- micro-services oriented.
I like Mark's comments. However, I worry about "massive scale" as a message. LOTS of people I talked with at CloudNativeCon and other shows recently have been doing fairly small scale deployments, but they're still cloud native. I think the nature of how we scale is important -- it's about the distributed, scale-out architectures that enable massive scale (but don't impose a cost burden for the small development shop that's running on a half dozen VMs in AWS).
I think "Dynamically scalable" captures that better.
Management includes scaling, so IMO "dynamically managed" implies dynamic scaling, as well as a higher rate of change than people had been accustomed to in the past.
In practice, the way this is achieved is through automation.
The inclusion of container-packaged and micro-services in the charter is an opinionated (and informed) stance about where the puck is headed.
So:
1. Speed of change
2. Resilience
3. Dynamically scalable
And you could add "built on open source foundation" as a fourth, or leave it implicit given the foundation nature of LF/CNCF.
Andy
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:32 AM Mark Coleman via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
I agree that we may need to think more about how we communicate about microservices, but do we agree that the underlying purpose of cloud native is:
1. Speed of change (I used to refer to this as agility but in general would like to avoid the term moving forwards)
2. Resilience (We should be able to change software quickly and not have it break due to internal or external factors)
3. Scale: We'd like to do really big stuff
?
If we know what problems we're solving it will be easier to talk about specific practices and tools in a coherent manner.
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:24 AM Camille Fournier <skamille@...> wrote:
Microservices are cloud native because they are a natural product of the ease of use for cloud. In a evolutionary way I would call them absolutely cloud native, which doesn't mean one must use them to effectively use the cloud but they do effectively show how cloud changed the way developers thought about building systems.
On Feb 14, 2017 10:22 AM, "Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc" <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:20 AM Anthony Skipper <anthony@...> wrote:
I'd argue that if you had good tools, you wouldn't need microservices.
Yes, I don't think microservices is a core value. It's one of several modern cloud native patterns that is useful for some organisational and technical issues. But not the only one.
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Mark Coleman via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:
I think I summarised it in this piece that I ghost wrote for Luke when he was at ClusterHQ (Friend D A please): https://www.infoq.
com/articles/microservices- revolution
We have a cloud native triangle composed of:
1. Speed of change (I refer to this as agility in that doc but in general would like to avoid the term moving forwards)
2. Resilience (We should be able to change software quickly and not have it break due to internal or external factors)
3. Scale: We'd like to do really big stuff
From those core requirements we can rationalize containerization, microservices and continuous delivery.
From those 'practices' we can talk about specific tools.
Where we fall down is when we start from the tools, but obviously a large part of getting things right (especially microservices I would argue) require pink matter.
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:09 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
yes
we need to develop a cloud native brand that has values which developers want
- free & open
- automated pipelines
- faster to make changes
- ..?
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:07 AM Mark Coleman <mark@...> wrote:
I like the model of bringing in end user stories to support the point being made.
The point here clearly seems to be "it's ok to move all your shit to the cloud snd figure it out there" which is an unsurprising position for AWS to take. This is not an opposing point to our mission(TM) though so I will explore this.
Right now I'm mainly concerned that our definition of cloud native is not everyone else's.
On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:34 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:
I thought this was worth sharing as an example of the sort of tech-biz guidance that members of the CNCF community could write. The piece is by someone from AWS and talks about cloud native vs other cloudy things.
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io Marketing Chair www.cncf.io
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