Microservices are cloud native because they are a natural product of the ease of use for cloud. In a evolutionary way I would call them absolutely cloud native, which doesn't mean one must use them to effectively use the cloud but they do effectively show how cloud changed the way developers thought about building systems.

On Feb 14, 2017 10:22 AM, "Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc" <cncf-toc@...> wrote:

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:20 AM Anthony Skipper <anthony@...> wrote:

I'd argue that if you had good tools, you wouldn't need microservices.

Yes, I don't think microservices is a core value.  It's one of several modern cloud native patterns that is useful for some organisational and technical issues.  But not the only one.

 

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Mark Coleman via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...> wrote:

I think I summarised it in this piece that I ghost wrote for Luke when he was at ClusterHQ (Friend D A please): https://www.infoq.com/articles/microservices-revolution

We have a cloud native triangle composed of:

1. Speed of change (I refer to this as agility in that doc but in general would like to avoid the term moving forwards)

2. Resilience (We should be able to change software quickly and not have it break due to internal or external factors)

3. Scale: We'd like to do really big stuff

From those core requirements we can rationalize containerization, microservices and continuous delivery.

From those 'practices' we can talk about specific tools.

Where we fall down is when we start from the tools, but obviously a large part of getting things right (especially microservices I would argue) require pink matter.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:09 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:

yes

we need to develop a cloud native brand that has values which developers want

- free & open 

- automated pipelines

- faster to make changes

- ..?

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:07 AM Mark Coleman <mark@...> wrote:

I like the model of bringing in end user stories to support the point being made.

The point here clearly seems to be "it's ok to move all your shit to the cloud snd figure it out there" which is an unsurprising position for AWS to take. This is not an opposing point to our mission(TM) though so I will explore this.

Right now I'm mainly concerned that our definition of cloud native is not everyone else's.

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:34 AM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:

I thought this was worth sharing as an example of the sort of tech-biz guidance that members of the CNCF community could write.  The piece is by someone from AWS and talks about cloud native vs other cloudy things.

https://medium.com/aws-enterprise-collection/cloud-native-or-lift-and-shift-99970053b25b

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