Re: Jaeger graduation due diligence

alexis richardson

Super post wm

On Thu, 10 Oct 2019, 15:24 William Morgan, <william@...> wrote:
On the topic of "the state of tracing", we JUST added tracing support to Linkerd. As someone with no real horse in the DT race, but with a desire to actually provide a concrete solution to our users, it was a particular painful exercise in navigating a complex landscape that at times seemed to consist solely of projects that were either deprecated or not ready for production. Writeup in

(But Jaeger is great.)


On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 8:03 AM via Lists.Cncf.Io <> wrote:

A couple of thoughts.


We should talk about the state of “tracing” in general.  It is useful to say that someone like Facebook is using it but it is also important to call out that they aren’t using Jaeger (right?).  Many many of the orgs doing this are very mature in their tooling and often have their own solutions in place.  Many more mature enterprises aren’t set up yet to really drive tracing.  Agree that OpenTelemetry could change that over time.


It is worth talking about the instrumentation/journey that many companies take.  Many start with metrics and logging (both structured and unstructured) long before they are mature enough for tracing.  I don’t kow if the CNCF has any advice for that.


Also worth noting that newer architectures that have more structure around user code (“serverless”) provide a great opportunity for automatically making tracing happen.  This will mature as open serverless frameworks become more mature.  (Things like Lambda are a closed system where they only integrate with their own tracing services).




From: <cncf-toc@...> on behalf of alexis richardson <alexis@...>
Date: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 5:45 AM
To: Yuri Shkuro <ys@...>
Cc: Matt Klein <mattklein123@...>, Alexis Richardson via cncf-toc <cncf-toc@...>, Gary Brown <gbrown@...>
Subject: Re: [cncf-toc] Jaeger graduation due diligence


Thanks Yuri and Matt.  This has been helpful for me.


I realised what was bothering me.  I think we should graduate Jaeger; but when we do so I think we should also provide some thoughts on the state of adoption.  Users will I hope feel more enlightened if we share that 1. The project is solid and has enough real use, 2. But the user base remains narrow, 3. Which will change as more ms apps are built and scaled, and tools like opentelemetry emerge, 4. And here is how you can help. 




On Mon, 7 Oct 2019, 21:44 Yuri Shkuro, <ys@...> wrote:

Thanks, Matt.


Yes, I wouldn't disagree about the niche qualification. Adopting tracing is relatively difficult today due to lack of reusable instrumentation, which will hopefully change with OpenTelemetry, and especially once the auto-instrumentation agents materialize. Having said that, many large tech companies use tracing, some of them highly effectively (e.g. Facebook). So I believe it's a niche that will only be getting bigger the more companies adopt microservices architectures.


On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 9:25 PM Matt Klein <mattklein123@...> wrote:

My worry is that somehow the product is quite niche.  It would be good to have broad adoption.


I will let @Yuri Shkuro and @Gary Brown chime in, but FWIW, my own take is that distributed tracing in general is still fairly niche and likely to be found at early adopter companies/enterprises. I'm not sure that we can expect "wide adoption" in this space. However, in my personal opinion, Jaeger's adoption is substantial enough to merit graduation.


On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 9:01 PM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:

Ticketmaster is an enterprise.  So is Uber but they are the parent Co. 


Weaveworks is not an enterprise, it is a small isv. 


Has jaeger found much traction among, say, non members of CNCF? 


My worry is that somehow the product is quite niche.  It would be good to have broad adoption.  





On Mon, 7 Oct 2019, 20:55 Matt Klein, <mattklein123@...> wrote:

I'm interested in end users who are also willing to self identify as enterprises.


We are probably about to get way off topic, but just to make sure I understand, what exactly is the definition of an enterprise here? Is Ticketmaster an enterprise? Is Uber?


On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 8:43 PM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:

I'm interested in end users who are also willing to self identify as enterprises.


Prometheus has a lot of these.  I had hoped Jaeger would be similar. 


Again it's not a deal breaker for me at all, but I'd love to hear there are enterprise users.



On Mon, 7 Oct 2019, 20:36 Matt Klein, <mattklein123@...> wrote:

Are you specifically referring to enterprise reselling/platform and not end-users?


On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 8:27 PM Alexis Richardson <alexis@...> wrote:

Not that this should be a blocker but how much evidence of enterprise or CSP use is Jaeger seeing?


Weaveworks are a happy user, as documented here.  



On Mon, 7 Oct 2019, 20:23 Matt Klein, <mattklein123@...> wrote:

Hi folks,


Here is Jaeger's due diligence document for review prior to the graduation vote:


Please take a look at this document as well as the graduation PR and comment away!


Thanks to Yuri and Gary for their hard work helping to put all of the material together.




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