Re: netdata shitshow


Trilok Geer
 

To be honest, this is a way better informed spam without results.

I do not see an agreement being made on what is being achieved in this discussion. 

What do we want to stop? A gamified starred project?

An abuse of cncf PRs? Where there is no monitoring?

A lawful entity who keeps an watch of such events?

Let me give an example

I build a project, and manage to pay an entity to show dumb activity with stars, how is it possible for any software to determine the purpose or the truthfulness of the activity. 

If someone, apart from me, can pose some real questions, than speculation of mediocrity "I agree", I'd definitely want to build a system, which can prove credibility if someone agrees on a metric of credibility.

To be honest the question of credibility is across foundations, projects, entities and members... 

If someone has given enough thought over this, please share where help is needed, I personally don't feel quite right on this thread for throwing suggestions without understanding the problem in right way. 

Thanks, 
Trilok 

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019, 7:22 PM Matt Farina <matt@...> wrote:
Dan, thanks for handling this in a polite way.

I’ve witnessed and heard about worse moves than this to promote projects and products. The cloud native space is pretty crowded and people are looking for an edge. Some will try to game the system. Some will push the limit in marketing. At the least, we can be polite and first approach people in a kind manner. I prefer to start from Hanlon’s razor.


-- 
Matt Farina
mattfarina.com



On Jun 7, 2019, at 8:16 AM, Dan Kohn <dan@...> wrote:

Yes, it requires 300 stars to get added, among other criteria. https://github.com/cncf/landscape#new-entries

I'd welcome ideas for additional requirements.

Relatedly, netdata merged my PR: https://github.com/netdata/netdata/pull/6234
--
Dan Kohn <dan@...>
Executive Director, Cloud Native Computing Foundation https://www.cncf.io
+1-415-233-1000 https://www.dankohn.com


On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 7:58 AM Liz Rice <liz@...> wrote:
I wasn't clear - I was thinking about the criteria the CNCF has for adding projects to the landscape (where one of the criteria is some number of github stars, if I recall correctly).
On 7 Jun 2019, 12:01 +0100, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@...>, wrote:
Liz,

Isn't there a challenge that folks who may want to "game" will not use the new system as it does not show the "inflated" numbers that they currently use? 

Thanks,
Dims

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 3:33 AM Liz Rice <liz@...> wrote:
Maybe we (or GitHub) could build some kind of “realstars” count which only counts stars from folks who have also done some number of other activities (raising PRs or issues, making comments, maybe even just filling in their profile...)
On 7 Jun 2019, 01:00 +0100, Shannon Williams <shannon@...>, wrote:

Perfect Dan, thanks.

 

Best Regards,

 

Shannon Williams

Rancher Labs

shannon@...

+1 650-521-6902

 

From: Dan Kohn <dan@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2019 2:46 PM
To: Matthew Farina <matt@...>
Cc: Alexis Richardson <alexis@...>; Shannon Williams <shannon@...>; david.andrew.mckay@...; Josh M <josh.michielsen@...>; CNCF TOC <cncf-toc@...>
Subject: Re: [cncf-toc] netdata shitshow

 

I created this PR: https://github.com/netdata/netdata/pull/6234

--

Dan Kohn <dan@...>

Executive Director, Cloud Native Computing Foundation https://www.cncf.io

+1-415-233-1000 https://www.dankohn.com

 
 

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 4:58 PM Matthew Farina <matt@...> wrote:

While I’m not a lawyer, I wonder if this violates the trademark rules. https://www.linuxfoundation.org/trademark-usage/ states:

 

Do not use a logo of The Linux Foundation on posters, brochures, signs, websites, or other marketing materials to promote your events, products or services without written permission from The Linux Foundation.

 

Just thinking out loud.

 

-- 
Matt Farina
mattfarina.com

 
 



On Jun 6, 2019, at 4:51 PM, alexis richardson <alexis@...> wrote:

 

The site doesn't say "applied for CNCF and was rejected".  This is an
example of "lying by omission".  It is not OK.

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 9:49 PM Shannon Williams <
shannon@...> wrote:


+1 – feels like an inappropriate use of the logo.  @Dan Kohn – anything we can do to stop that?





From: cncf-toc@... <cncf-toc@...> On Behalf Of David McKay via Lists.Cncf.Io
Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2019 1:40 PM
To: Josh M <josh.michielsen@...>
Cc: cncf-toc@...
Subject: Re: [cncf-toc] netdata shitshow



While not "technically" incorrect, I understand what Alexis is saying; it seems like unethical wording used intentionally to cause inferences towards being CNCF supported/approved/certified.



IIRC, they did try to become a CNCF project and had no sponsors.



A quick Google shows that they're using this "endorsement" actively in their marketing campaigns:



https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17304734







On Thu, 6 Jun 2019, 13:30 Josh M, <josh.michielsen@...> wrote:

It's technically not wrong I guess....



On Thu, 6 Jun 2019, 9:28 pm alexis richardson, <alexis@...> wrote:

"Netdata is in the Cloud Native Computing Foundation (CNCF) landscape
and it is the 3rd most starred open-source project. Check the CNCF TOC
Netdata presentation."

https://github.com/netdata/netdata/blob/master/README.md






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--
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims

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