I'm well aware you did. Certainly that makes your opinion a valuable one! But again I have to stress being it's founder doesn't mean you can speak for everyone else that finds it valuable.

On Fri, 7 Jun 2019, 6:33 pm Alexis Richardson, <alexis@...> wrote:

Josh

I created the landscape, so I feel I have a dog in this race.

a

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 6:19 PM Josh Michielsen
<josh.michielsen@...> wrote:

This comes across as "I don't find it valuable therefore it has no value", which isn't exactly a nuanced opinion. You certainly don't represent my feelings on the topic. Much like how you found netdata's use of the CNCF logo misleading, you're speaking from a position of authority in a way that (to me at least) probably misrepresents the views of the CNCF and possibly the wider community.

Obviously you're free to have the opinion that it has no value, but I think you should represent that view more honestly.

On Fri, 7 Jun 2019, 5:34 pm alexis richardson, <alexis@...> wrote:

When we first made the landscape, it (1) had a particular structure
and (2) attempted to show what projects are cloud native and where
they live in that structure.

Now, it has everything in it. So it is meaningless.

For example: Netdata is a fine project, but we struggled (as a TOC) to
see it as cloud native.


On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 5:32 PM Shilla Saebi <shilla.saebi@...> wrote:

Hi Alexis,

Just wondering, if the CNCF landscape means nothing, why have it in the first place? Can you please explain further?

Thank you,

Shilla

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 9:27 AM alexis richardson <alexis@...> wrote:

Costa

"Alexis Richardson you posted that "the site doesn't say 'applied for
CNCF and was rejected'". Please explain the "rejected" part. When
netdata was rejected? How?"

After you presented to the TOC we decided to not invite netdata to
become a CNCF project.

The landscape means nothing, everyone is in it.

a

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 4:12 PM <costa+cncf@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I am the founder of Netdata.

We have merged Dan's PR. Thank you Dan!

David McKay you mention that the above are "unethical wording used intentionally to cause inferences towards being CNCF supported/approved/certified". It would be if the phrase "in the landscape" was missing. You may of course mean that most people may not be aware of what the CNCF landscape is, so we should better clarify that Netdata is not CNCF supported/approved/certified. I ack that and this is why we merged Dan's PR immediately after it was submitted.

I was not aware that projects in the landscape are not authorized to use the CNCF logo. I thought that once a project has been accepted in the landscape, it has the right to feature the CNCF logo at its README. Shannon Williams and Matt Farina thank you for pointing out that use of the logo requires a separate approval. We are removing the CNCF logo from all our material.

David McKay you also mention that we are using this "endorsement" actively in our marketing campaigns. This is not true. Please check the dates of any posts you can find. You will see that we announced it once, immediately after we got accepted to the landscape. There were also a few posts when we bypassed Ansible and got in the 3rd position of the most starred open-source projects. That's it. There was never "active marketing" about it.

Alexis Richardson you posted that "the site doesn't say 'applied for CNCF and was rejected'". Please explain the "rejected" part. When netdata was rejected? How?

During the TOC presentation I did in Sep 2018, TOC members had a discussion on how politics influence CNCF. I think the approval mechanism in place (get TOC members as project sponsors) is the source of the problem. You require from project founders to spend time in public relations to promote their projects. I am sorry, I won't do that! I don't think this means CNCF rejected Netdata. I rejected the CNCF process and Netdata got stuck in the landscape.

Netdata is community driven. It modernizes and simplifies monitoring significantly and the community loves it. We have 39k github stars. 3.5k forks. 500k docker hub pulls per day, every day (on our 3 docker hub repos). 900k active users over the last 3 months. 80k git clones from 62k unique cloners in the last 15 days. On the project we have 10 full-time developers and we plan to be more 20 by the end of the year.

So, like it or not, CNCF supported/approved/certified or not, Netdata is thriving.

Be sure that I honor CNCF and I don't want to remove Netdata from the landscape. On our part, we plan to support more CNCF projects as we recently did for K8s and also become a Silver sponsor after we complete our Series A.

Thanks a lot for everything you do for the community and looking to collaborate more closely in the future.

Apologies for any mishaps on our side.

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