Date   

Due diligence document for OpenMetrics

Richard Hartmann
 

Dear all,

for today's SIG O11y DD on OM (abbrevations!), please see
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BN6ABvfbAMhJthH6xNOY5Lmls3jeE3kFbMgF04BzEKE

Ideally read it before the meeting.

For the record, I will recuse myself as chair during the DD meeting.


Best,
Richard


Tomorrow's SIG Observability Sync: Call for agenda items and Time alignment.

Bartłomiej Płotka
 

Hi,

Hope you are all well!

1. To avoid timing confusion, let's agree on one time finally (: There were some wintertime clock changes in EU, all went upside down. I assumed we align to the public CNCF Calendar which claims 17:00 UTC - 17:50 UTC. Adjusted the time (which was wrong) on our Meeting Sync doc.

2. Please add items on agenda. Anything that needs discussion, open questions, status of  working groups, etc? 🤗

See ya tomorrow!

Kind Regards,
Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


Subscribe

St Leger, Jim
 

 


Re: Hello after Summer: We are back with the SIG Observability Meetings!

Ryan Ordway
 

Ooh, thanks for that. I just joined and am catching up. Very observable 🤭


On Tue, Sep 1, 2020, 7:37 AM Bartłomiej Płotka via lists.cncf.io <bwplotka=gmail.com@...> wrote:

[This email originated from outside of OSU. Use caution with links and attachments.]

[This email originated from outside of OSU. Use caution with links and attachments.]

> Factual correction: 

😱

Kind Regards,
Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 12:59, Michael Wang <xdragon007@...> wrote:
Yeah, great. Thanks.

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 7:31 PM Hausenblas, Michael via lists.cncf.io <hausenbl=amazon.com@...> wrote:
> We can consider recording those, yes (:

> So far we did not.

Factual correction:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLj6h78yzYM2PJkFrpP6IT52KkdBvcvS_9


We should _resume_ recording ;)


Cheers, 
Michael

-- 

Product Developer Advocate, AWS container service team 
https://mhausenblas.info | +353 86 0215164

On 1 September 2020 at 12:14:41, Bartłomiej Płotka (bwplotka@...) wrote:
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links 
> or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.


> We can consider recording those, yes (:

> So far we did not.

> Kind Regards,
> Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


> On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 03:16, Michael Wang > 
> wrote:
> Hi

> Do we have recordings for the meeting?
> It is too late for me to join.

> On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 5:31 AM Bartłomiej Płotka > 
> wrote:
> Hi SIG Observability!

> Hope at least some of us had some relaxing time this summer - I am personally still looking 
> for some PTO time 🌴🌴🌴 (:

> Just a short reminder: We are back with the SIG Observability meetings! The first one 
> is tomorrow. Feel free to add items to our agenda:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_QoF-njScSuGFI3Ge5zu-G8SbL6scQ8AzT1hq57bRoQ/edit#heading=h.ftdhh2fhj4fa 

> See Ya!

> Kind Regards,
> Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


> --
> This is my life,but world of us~~

>

Amazon Data Services Ireland Limited registered office: One Burlington Plaza, Burlington Road, Dublin 4, Ireland. Registered in Ireland. Registration number 390566.





--
This is my life,but world of us~~


Re: Hello after Summer: We are back with the SIG Observability Meetings!

Bartłomiej Płotka
 

> Factual correction: 

😱

Kind Regards,
Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 12:59, Michael Wang <xdragon007@...> wrote:
Yeah, great. Thanks.

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 7:31 PM Hausenblas, Michael via lists.cncf.io <hausenbl=amazon.com@...> wrote:
> We can consider recording those, yes (:

> So far we did not.

Factual correction:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLj6h78yzYM2PJkFrpP6IT52KkdBvcvS_9


We should _resume_ recording ;)


Cheers, 
Michael

-- 

Product Developer Advocate, AWS container service team 
https://mhausenblas.info | +353 86 0215164

On 1 September 2020 at 12:14:41, Bartłomiej Płotka (bwplotka@...) wrote:
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links 
> or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.


> We can consider recording those, yes (:

> So far we did not.

> Kind Regards,
> Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


> On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 03:16, Michael Wang > 
> wrote:
> Hi

> Do we have recordings for the meeting?
> It is too late for me to join.

> On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 5:31 AM Bartłomiej Płotka > 
> wrote:
> Hi SIG Observability!

> Hope at least some of us had some relaxing time this summer - I am personally still looking 
> for some PTO time 🌴🌴🌴 (:

> Just a short reminder: We are back with the SIG Observability meetings! The first one 
> is tomorrow. Feel free to add items to our agenda:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_QoF-njScSuGFI3Ge5zu-G8SbL6scQ8AzT1hq57bRoQ/edit#heading=h.ftdhh2fhj4fa 

> See Ya!

> Kind Regards,
> Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


> --
> This is my life,but world of us~~

>

Amazon Data Services Ireland Limited registered office: One Burlington Plaza, Burlington Road, Dublin 4, Ireland. Registered in Ireland. Registration number 390566.





--
This is my life,but world of us~~


Re: Hello after Summer: We are back with the SIG Observability Meetings!

Michael Wang <xdragon007@...>
 

Yeah, great. Thanks.


On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 7:31 PM Hausenblas, Michael via lists.cncf.io <hausenbl=amazon.com@...> wrote:
> We can consider recording those, yes (:

> So far we did not.

Factual correction:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLj6h78yzYM2PJkFrpP6IT52KkdBvcvS_9


We should _resume_ recording ;)


Cheers, 
Michael

-- 

Product Developer Advocate, AWS container service team 
https://mhausenblas.info | +353 86 0215164

On 1 September 2020 at 12:14:41, Bartłomiej Płotka (bwplotka@...) wrote:
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links 
> or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.


> We can consider recording those, yes (:

> So far we did not.

> Kind Regards,
> Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


> On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 03:16, Michael Wang > 
> wrote:
> Hi

> Do we have recordings for the meeting?
> It is too late for me to join.

> On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 5:31 AM Bartłomiej Płotka > 
> wrote:
> Hi SIG Observability!

> Hope at least some of us had some relaxing time this summer - I am personally still looking 
> for some PTO time 🌴🌴🌴 (:

> Just a short reminder: We are back with the SIG Observability meetings! The first one 
> is tomorrow. Feel free to add items to our agenda:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_QoF-njScSuGFI3Ge5zu-G8SbL6scQ8AzT1hq57bRoQ/edit#heading=h.ftdhh2fhj4fa 

> See Ya!

> Kind Regards,
> Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


> --
> This is my life,but world of us~~

>

Amazon Data Services Ireland Limited registered office: One Burlington Plaza, Burlington Road, Dublin 4, Ireland. Registered in Ireland. Registration number 390566.





--
This is my life,but world of us~~


Re: Hello after Summer: We are back with the SIG Observability Meetings!

Hausenblas, Michael
 

We can consider recording those, yes (:
 
So far we did not.
Factual correction:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLj6h78yzYM2PJkFrpP6IT52KkdBvcvS_9


We should _resume_ recording ;)


Cheers,
Michael

--

Product Developer Advocate, AWS container service team
https://mhausenblas.info | +353 86 0215164

On 1 September 2020 at 12:14:41, Bartłomiej Płotka (bwplotka@...) wrote:
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links
or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.


We can consider recording those, yes (:

So far we did not.

Kind Regards,
Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 03:16, Michael Wang >
wrote:
Hi

Do we have recordings for the meeting?
It is too late for me to join.

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 5:31 AM Bartłomiej Płotka >
wrote:
Hi SIG Observability!

Hope at least some of us had some relaxing time this summer - I am personally still looking
for some PTO time 🌴🌴🌴 (:

Just a short reminder: We are back with the SIG Observability meetings! The first one
is tomorrow. Feel free to add items to our agenda:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_QoF-njScSuGFI3Ge5zu-G8SbL6scQ8AzT1hq57bRoQ/edit#heading=h.ftdhh2fhj4fa

See Ya!

Kind Regards,
Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


--
This is my life,but world of us~~


Amazon Data Services Ireland Limited registered office: One Burlington Plaza, Burlington Road, Dublin 4, Ireland. Registered in Ireland. Registration number 390566.


Re: Hello after Summer: We are back with the SIG Observability Meetings!

Bartłomiej Płotka
 

We can consider recording those, yes (:

So far we did not.

Kind Regards,
Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 03:16, Michael Wang <xdragon007@...> wrote:
Hi

Do we have recordings for the meeting?
It is too late for me to join.

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 5:31 AM Bartłomiej Płotka <bwplotka@...> wrote:
Hi SIG Observability!

Hope at least some of us had some relaxing time this summer - I am personally still looking for some PTO time 🌴🌴🌴 (: 

Just a short reminder: We are back with the SIG Observability meetings! The first one is tomorrow. Feel free to add items to our agenda:

See Ya!

Kind Regards,
Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)



--
This is my life,but world of us~~


Re: Hello after Summer: We are back with the SIG Observability Meetings!

Michael Wang <xdragon007@...>
 

Hi

Do we have recordings for the meeting?
It is too late for me to join.

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 5:31 AM Bartłomiej Płotka <bwplotka@...> wrote:
Hi SIG Observability!

Hope at least some of us had some relaxing time this summer - I am personally still looking for some PTO time 🌴🌴🌴 (: 

Just a short reminder: We are back with the SIG Observability meetings! The first one is tomorrow. Feel free to add items to our agenda:

See Ya!

Kind Regards,
Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)



--
This is my life,but world of us~~


Hello after Summer: We are back with the SIG Observability Meetings!

Bartłomiej Płotka
 

Hi SIG Observability!

Hope at least some of us had some relaxing time this summer - I am personally still looking for some PTO time 🌴🌴🌴 (: 

Just a short reminder: We are back with the SIG Observability meetings! The first one is tomorrow. Feel free to add items to our agenda:

See Ya!

Kind Regards,
Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


Re: Prometheus & Observability documentation

RichiH Hartmann
 

Thanks for this feedback!

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 2:12 AM Arthur Silva Sens
<arthursens2005@...> wrote:

One thing that came to my mind when you talked about Monitoring vs Datalake, I guess that Machine Learning use-cases are starting to grow on the Observability field, so metrics' datalakes may not be garbage anymore. Of course that Monitoring and Machine Learning are two different things, but I think that both have some space at the Observability scope. WDYT?
I agree that ML needs more nuance. I have better mental pictures to
transport my caveats now and those would hopefully enable more
deliberate tradeoff considerations.


One topic that is still unclear to me is: When should I need tracing? You say that tracing is expensive and should be treated with care, so how do I know if tracing is worth for a particular case?
Fair point. I should have talked about trade-offs more.


Overall, I think that it was a wonderful presentation and I would recommend to anyone who is getting started with observability, like myself. And again, this is the opinion of someone not much experienced with all of this, maybe someone more experienced could give some feedback if what you are saying remains correct nowadays.
Thanks; and I think the ones with experience are good at nitpicking,
but, by definition, can't _truly_ say if it helps newcomers. The
newcomers need to do that.


Best,
Richard


Re: Prometheus & Observability documentation

Bartłomiej Płotka
 

Thanks Arthur - those questions are an amazing indication for us what sections of our potential SIG 101 doc should be extended (: 

> One topic that is still unclear to me is:  When should I need tracing? You say that tracing is expensive and should be treated with care, so how do I know if tracing is worth for a particular case?

TL;DR the answer is simple: When other signals do not give the answer you are looking for (: 
For example "why my request was slow? What part (e.g which service call) of the request execution was the bottleneck?" I find tracing definition by Peter Bourgon quite useful:

> (...) tracing then, is that it deals with information that is request-scoped. Any bit of data or metadata that can be bound to lifecycle of a single transactional object in the system. As examples: the duration of an outbound RPC to a remote service; the text of an actual SQL query sent to a database; or the correlation ID of an inbound HTTP request.

Kind Regards,
Bartek Plotka

On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 at 01:12, Arthur Silva Sens <arthursens2005@...> wrote:
Hello Richard and everyone,

Maybe some of you recognize me from GitHub, some may not, but for context to everyone.. I'm a recently graduated student with not much experience around the whole observability scope, currently working on improving KubeVirt's observability(CNCF sandbox project). 

I've just watched the observability 101 and I must say that it did give me some really good directions on how to proceed with my project. 
I can recognize some old mistakes that I did with old monitoring projects, often making cargo culting and building metrics datalakes instead of good monitoring solutions. Probably it wouldn't have happened if I watched your presentation back then.

One thing that came to my mind when you talked about Monitoring vs Datalake, I guess that Machine Learning use-cases are starting to grow on the Observability field, so metrics' datalakes may not be garbage anymore. Of course that Monitoring and Machine Learning are two different things, but I think that both have some space at the Observability scope. WDYT?

Another thing that was tremendously helpful for me in your presentation was the clear definition of what I'm supposed to accomplish with Metrics, Logs, and Traces. When implementing new metrics, I often try to solve problems that are better suited to logging/tracing. 

One topic that is still unclear to me is:  When should I need tracing? You say that tracing is expensive and should be treated with care, so how do I know if tracing is worth for a particular case?

Overall, I think that it was a wonderful presentation and I would recommend to anyone who is getting started with observability, like myself. And again, this is the opinion of someone not much experienced with all of this, maybe someone more experienced could give some feedback if what you are saying remains correct nowadays.

thanks,
Arthur

Em ter., 21 de jul. de 2020 às 14:04, Richard Hartmann <richih@...> escreveu:
Post it here, please. I do get FOSDEM feedback email too, but that's
invisible to this list.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 6:58 PM <a@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Richard,
>
> Regarding Observability 101 content: I noticed the recording page has a feedback link. Should I send feedback there, or post it here?
>
> Thank you,
> Amin
>




Re: Prometheus & Observability documentation

Arthur Silva Sens
 

Hello Richard and everyone,

Maybe some of you recognize me from GitHub, some may not, but for context to everyone.. I'm a recently graduated student with not much experience around the whole observability scope, currently working on improving KubeVirt's observability(CNCF sandbox project). 

I've just watched the observability 101 and I must say that it did give me some really good directions on how to proceed with my project. 
I can recognize some old mistakes that I did with old monitoring projects, often making cargo culting and building metrics datalakes instead of good monitoring solutions. Probably it wouldn't have happened if I watched your presentation back then.

One thing that came to my mind when you talked about Monitoring vs Datalake, I guess that Machine Learning use-cases are starting to grow on the Observability field, so metrics' datalakes may not be garbage anymore. Of course that Monitoring and Machine Learning are two different things, but I think that both have some space at the Observability scope. WDYT?

Another thing that was tremendously helpful for me in your presentation was the clear definition of what I'm supposed to accomplish with Metrics, Logs, and Traces. When implementing new metrics, I often try to solve problems that are better suited to logging/tracing. 

One topic that is still unclear to me is:  When should I need tracing? You say that tracing is expensive and should be treated with care, so how do I know if tracing is worth for a particular case?

Overall, I think that it was a wonderful presentation and I would recommend to anyone who is getting started with observability, like myself. And again, this is the opinion of someone not much experienced with all of this, maybe someone more experienced could give some feedback if what you are saying remains correct nowadays.

thanks,
Arthur

Em ter., 21 de jul. de 2020 às 14:04, Richard Hartmann <richih@...> escreveu:

Post it here, please. I do get FOSDEM feedback email too, but that's
invisible to this list.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 6:58 PM <a@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Richard,
>
> Regarding Observability 101 content: I noticed the recording page has a feedback link. Should I send feedback there, or post it here?
>
> Thank you,
> Amin
>




Re: Prometheus & Observability documentation

Richard Hartmann
 

Post it here, please. I do get FOSDEM feedback email too, but that's
invisible to this list.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 6:58 PM <a@...> wrote:

Hi Richard,

Regarding Observability 101 content: I noticed the recording page has a feedback link. Should I send feedback there, or post it here?

Thank you,
Amin


Re: Prometheus & Observability documentation

Amin Amos
 

Hi Richard,

Regarding Observability 101 content: I noticed the recording page has a feedback link. Should I send feedback there, or post it here?

Thank you,
Amin


Skipping August meetings

Richard Hartmann
 

Dear all,

as we were only nine people during the call, as PTO time is coming,
and as we don't have any pressing action items, we decided to skip
both August meetings.


Best,
Richard


Prometheus & Observability documentation

Richard Hartmann
 

Dear all,

during our call I mentioned that Prometheus will be overhauling our
complete documentation, see
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yuaPKLDvhJNXMF1ubsOOm5kE2_6dvCxHowBQIDs0KdU/edit
for details.

Also, we are working on making 101 content. If you have someone who
can try https://archive.fosdem.org/2019/schedule/event/on_observability_2019/
and give honest feedback, that would be great.


Best,
Richard


Data analysis use case collection & collation

Richard Hartmann
 

Dear all,

as per yesterday's call, we will start collecting use cases for data
analysis scenarios. Please use
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yfbBG8MBllLRCXVNMp2fgRJm5TiCooO9NSD2CfOQ4ck/edit
as the shared resource for this.


Best,
Richard


Meeting times

Richard Hartmann
 

Dear all,

as agreed during the last meeting, we will start future calls s.t.,
i.e. on time. While I understand the struggle of juggling endless
meetings all too well, we end at 50m to allow people to jump to the
next meeting. Rather than lose ~5% of our time and
encourage/perpetuate this going forward, we want to try and lead by
example here :)


Best,
Richard


Re: [Action Required] Thanos to Incubation Due Diligence Ask For Review

Bartłomiej Płotka
 

Hi.

A short reminder to check the DD before tomorrow's meeting as the plan is to review it together, similar to the Cortex document.

Doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jJk5seSUcgwybT4nVGOzaRGrugc90uL3WCY0fUgQh1M/edit?usp=sharing 

Kind Regards,
Bartek

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