Date   

Extra meeting today

Richard Hartmann
 

Dear all,

as agreed, Amye created an extra invitation for us last week. It was
copied over from the regular forthnightly one, lives in the same
calendar, has the same invitations, meeting notes, Zoom URL, and is on
the same time slot.

Yet, to make sure:
2021-03-09 17:00 UTC, Description:
https://zoom.us/j/91486841153?pwd=TmxaczdPWXNna1BISDhLOVY0VjFidz09
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_QoF-njScSuGFI3Ge5zu-G8SbL6scQ8AzT1hq57bRoQ/edit

The focus will be OpenTelemetry's due dilligence document for
Incubation status. If you want to add short(!) announcements in front,
please feel free to do so.


See you soon,
Richard


Re: SIG-Observability whitepaper - Call for contributors

Arthur Silva Sens
 

Hi John, that's awesome!

How would you like to proceed? Want to sync anything on our next meeting after Open Telemetry due diligence? That would be on March 16th.

Em seg., 8 de mar. de 2021 às 04:51, John Browne <john.j.browne@...> escreveu:

Hey Arthur,
  Myself and Emma Collins would be interested in contributing to the Monitoring section of the document, relating to infrastructure monitoring.
We both previously contributed to the OPNFV Barometer project.


Re: SIG-Observability whitepaper - Call for contributors

John Browne
 

Hey Arthur,
  Myself and Emma Collins would be interested in contributing to the Monitoring section of the document, relating to infrastructure monitoring.
We both previously contributed to the OPNFV Barometer project.


SIG-Observability whitepaper - Call for contributors

Arthur Silva Sens
 

Hello everyone, 

 

As asked on this long-living issue and then discussed in several meetings, SIG-Observability thinks that the community sees value in a community-driven, and thus vendor-neutral, Whitepaper talking about Observability.

Some work has already been done in the past, but it was kinda abandoned in the last couple of months. Simone Ferlin and I made a review of the sections that may be interesting and, since we are not experts, we'd like to invite the brilliant minds that are part of the CNCF community to help us write this whitepaper. The working document can be found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eoxBe-tkQclixeNmKXcyCMmaF5w1Kh1rBDdLs0-cFsA/edit#

 

As said in the issue:

 

Goal: Support users in implementing observability and monitoring for their cloud-native workloads.

Target: End-users building cloud-native applications

Scope: Define basic concepts of data collection and analysis and how CNCF projects can be used for this. Maybe add 1 - 3 real-world reference examples

 

Even though this structure is not final, let me do a quick overview of what we think may be valuable. Please let us know if anyone would like to write about any of the topics or subtopics, or have suggestions about other topic that may be missing:

 

  • What is observability?

    That is the entry point of the whitepaper. If a user wants to implement observability, first he/she needs to know what he/she is trying to achieve, what is the final goal.
  • The three Observability pillars

    Yes, there is a lot more to Observability than just the three pillars, but we believe that those are the starting point to someone that is beginning its observability journey. Here we'd like to quickly explain how those pillars make the foundation to an observable system.
    • Metrics
      Explain what are metrics, what problems they are supposed to solve, what problems they are not supposed to solve, how they are usually collected, and general best practices.
    • Logs
      Explain what are logs, what problems they are supposed to solve, what problems they are not supposed to solve, how they are usually collected, and general best practices.
    • Traces
      Explain what are traces, what problems they are supposed to solve, what problems they are not supposed to solve, how they are usually collected, and general best practices.
  • Different ways to observe a system

    Now that we explained a set of telemetry data types, how do we bring value out of them? Beginners tend to create telemetry data at random and it often does more harm than good. We need to be extremely clear that cloud-native observability is not just using cloud-native tools, we need to explain clear methodologies and guidelines to bring value out of the collected telemetry! Then, let's start talking about the different ways to observe a system and dig deeper into methodologies. There are so many ways to observe a system, so let's keep in mind that there is room to add new ways besides the ones listed below.
    • Monitoring
      People tend to think that observability is another word for monitoring, we should start by explaining the difference between them, then dig deeper into the monitoring subject. Talk about blackbox and whitebox monitoring, maybe explain RED and USE method. Talk a little about SLOs and SLO-based alerts, explain if and when SLO-based alerts can substitute the traditional resource-based alerts, e.g., high CPU saturation and node disk filling up. We can mention tools that help us do cloud-native monitoring, but let's not get too deep into implementation details, focus on teaching clear methodologies.
    • Chaos Engineering
      Chaos engineering adoption has been increasing a lot in the last couple of years. Let's explain what is it, its principles, its goals, when someone should or shouldn't be doing chaos engineering.
    • Data visualization and exploration
      A very simple way, just opening the data visualization tool of choice and explore the collected telemetry. Even though it's simple, I think this might be the final goal of an observable system! When developing a well observable system, the one that can find answers is not the one who has been working on said system for longer, but the one that is more curious regarding the collected telemetry. Building good dashboards is no easy task and proper guidance is very-well appreciated.
    • M.E.L.T
      Explain what is M.E.L.T. and its goals, how it can be used not only for system resiliency but to measure the UX of users, and how a company's product can be improved using this approach.
    • [Undecided] Service Mesh
      We were in doubt about how service mesh relates to observability. Tools like Linkerd and can show us powerful information regarding network activities between different components, but we don't know if it's a tool feature or if that's the real goal of a service mesh. Does service mesh overlaps with monitoring? Does it overlap with data visualization and exploration? If we decide to keep service mesh a way to observe a system, then let's be clear about its goals and how it differs from the other approaches.
    • [Undecided] Continuous Profiling
      A lot of new tools and companies have emerged based on application profiling in this last year. This methodology completely ignores the three pillars of observability and focuses on, well, application profiles. Its adoption is not that popular yet, but some think that it is worth mentioning. If we decide to keep it, let's talk about what is a profile, and why continuously collecting those profiles can help end-users build more reliable and performant software.
  • Use Cases

    In this section, we're aiming to show real-life use cases of companies who were struggling with a certain subject and how they managed to solve it. It can be how the company used different observability methodologies to solve a certain problem or use-cases when trying to implement or adopt cloud-native observability methods. We've listed below some use-cases that we think might be useful, but don't feel limited to this shortlist.
    • Implementing SL{A, I, O}s
      SLOs are the standard to ship new features into production while keeping an acceptable level of reliability. Getting started with it is hard though, especially if a company is used to the old sysadmin approach where infrastructure and development teams have conflicting goals. We are interested in real-life use cases of companies that have successfully made the culture changes and are now happy with their SLOs.
    • Data retention and legal issues
      Europe and some other countries around the world have laws that protect users' privacy. The main point of these laws is that a user needs to be able to delete all data related to him/her if he/she decides to do so. That includes any data related to observability. When implementing cloud-native observability, how to keep track of data of individual users and how to proceed when a user decides to delete everything?
  • Gaps around observability

    Cloud-Native observability is still a little bit far from perfect. Some problems still can't be easily solved, whether for lack of proper tooling or proper methodology. This section will talk about problems that SIG-Observability has identified as not ready for wider adoption. This also means that there is room in the market if anyone is interested in working on these gaps :) 
    • Machine learning and statistics
      Yes, a very polemic topic! Some say that machine learning is completely useless for cloud-native observability due to the always-changing nature of cloud applications, while others say that ML has room to solve some problems. Let's be clear on how M.L. can be used here and where do we expect to see improvements in the future.
    • Monitoring streaming APIs
      There is the USE method to monitor resources and the RED method to monitor request-response-driven services. None of those methods apply to streaming APIs, due to its nature of long-living connections. Intending to put people on-call to monitor streaming APIs that someone might not have written, there is a need for a methodology that applies to all Streaming APIs to tell if it is healthy or not. This section should give some direction to the point that we want to be in a near future when monitoring Streaming APIs.
    • Core dumps
      After crashes, kernel cores are dumped into the filesystem and can be used to analyze the reason for the crash. When working on the cloud, sometimes access to the nodes is not allowed or the experience to do so is far from great. This section should explain what would be a good experience when someone needs a Kernel core dump.

 


Accepted: [cncf-sig-observability] Invitation: CNCF SIG-Observability Meeting @ Tue Mar 9, 2021 9am - 9:50am (PST) (cncf-sig-observability@lists.cncf.io)

tomasrebelomota@...
 


Invitation: CNCF SIG-Observability Meeting @ Tue Mar 9, 2021 9am - 9:50am (PST) (cncf-sig-observability@lists.cncf.io)

Amye Scavarda Perrin
 

You have been invited to the following event.

CNCF SIG-Observability Meeting

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Tue Mar 9, 2021 9am – 9:50am Pacific Time - Los Angeles
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Re: OpenTelemetry incubation due diligence

Bartłomiej Płotka
 

Hi All,

Thanks, Steve for addressing our comments so far! As the SIG Observability Tech Lead, I felt responsible to spend more time on a deeper exploration of OpenTelemetry, as I was new to this. I talked with many people from the community, looked from code and documentation. I even went ahead and produced a quick proposal that could improve the adoption of OpenTelemetry even further. 🤗

I noted all my findings during exploration on this document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/17R2chs1f0E8hH-jKFjiMtY1-7KoCcOSPPlRMpNKjuzE/edit# Please feel free to comment and discuss.  

Those are some suggestions from my side and while it does not give a clear recommendation if OpenTelemetry is ready for Incubation or not, I believe it gives more points to the discussion we can continue next Tuesday! Hope that makes sense (: 

Kind Regards,
Bartek


OpenTelemetry incubation due diligence

Steve Flanders
 

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the time and feedback today during the OpenTelemetry incubation due diligence review today. As promised, I have addressed the initial feedback. I would encourage everyone to review the document and add comments before the next meeting. The document can be found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f4WQR6K84giyOCKjCsqcoVA8YUIzBhWZDVo3CwM1wuk/edit# 

Thanks,

--
Steve Flanders
Director of Engineering
Splunk, Inc.


PromQL compliance overview

Richard Hartmann
 

Dear all,

https://promlabs.com/blog/2020/11/26/an-update-on-promql-compatibility-across-vendors
might be of wider interest within this group.


Best,
Richard


Re: Due diligence document for OpenMetrics

Richard Hartmann
 

Dear all,

as agreed during the last SIG O11y call, we addressed all comments &
concerns in the document, both the ones raised during the call and
afterwards. Please review/clarify/update where needed.


Best,
Richard

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 3:26 PM Richard Hartmann via lists.cncf.io
<richih=richih.org@...> wrote:

Dear all,

for today's SIG O11y DD on OM (abbrevations!), please see
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BN6ABvfbAMhJthH6xNOY5Lmls3jeE3kFbMgF04BzEKE

Ideally read it before the meeting.

For the record, I will recuse myself as chair during the DD meeting.


Best,
Richard





Due diligence document for OpenMetrics

Richard Hartmann
 

Dear all,

for today's SIG O11y DD on OM (abbrevations!), please see
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BN6ABvfbAMhJthH6xNOY5Lmls3jeE3kFbMgF04BzEKE

Ideally read it before the meeting.

For the record, I will recuse myself as chair during the DD meeting.


Best,
Richard


Tomorrow's SIG Observability Sync: Call for agenda items and Time alignment.

Bartłomiej Płotka
 

Hi,

Hope you are all well!

1. To avoid timing confusion, let's agree on one time finally (: There were some wintertime clock changes in EU, all went upside down. I assumed we align to the public CNCF Calendar which claims 17:00 UTC - 17:50 UTC. Adjusted the time (which was wrong) on our Meeting Sync doc.

2. Please add items on agenda. Anything that needs discussion, open questions, status of  working groups, etc? 🤗

See ya tomorrow!

Kind Regards,
Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


Subscribe

St Leger, Jim
 

 


Re: Hello after Summer: We are back with the SIG Observability Meetings!

Ryan Ordway
 

Ooh, thanks for that. I just joined and am catching up. Very observable 🤭


On Tue, Sep 1, 2020, 7:37 AM Bartłomiej Płotka via lists.cncf.io <bwplotka=gmail.com@...> wrote:

[This email originated from outside of OSU. Use caution with links and attachments.]

[This email originated from outside of OSU. Use caution with links and attachments.]

> Factual correction: 

😱

Kind Regards,
Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 12:59, Michael Wang <xdragon007@...> wrote:
Yeah, great. Thanks.

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 7:31 PM Hausenblas, Michael via lists.cncf.io <hausenbl=amazon.com@...> wrote:
> We can consider recording those, yes (:

> So far we did not.

Factual correction:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLj6h78yzYM2PJkFrpP6IT52KkdBvcvS_9


We should _resume_ recording ;)


Cheers, 
Michael

-- 

Product Developer Advocate, AWS container service team 
https://mhausenblas.info | +353 86 0215164

On 1 September 2020 at 12:14:41, Bartłomiej Płotka (bwplotka@...) wrote:
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links 
> or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.


> We can consider recording those, yes (:

> So far we did not.

> Kind Regards,
> Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


> On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 03:16, Michael Wang > 
> wrote:
> Hi

> Do we have recordings for the meeting?
> It is too late for me to join.

> On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 5:31 AM Bartłomiej Płotka > 
> wrote:
> Hi SIG Observability!

> Hope at least some of us had some relaxing time this summer - I am personally still looking 
> for some PTO time 🌴🌴🌴 (:

> Just a short reminder: We are back with the SIG Observability meetings! The first one 
> is tomorrow. Feel free to add items to our agenda:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_QoF-njScSuGFI3Ge5zu-G8SbL6scQ8AzT1hq57bRoQ/edit#heading=h.ftdhh2fhj4fa 

> See Ya!

> Kind Regards,
> Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


> --
> This is my life,but world of us~~

>

Amazon Data Services Ireland Limited registered office: One Burlington Plaza, Burlington Road, Dublin 4, Ireland. Registered in Ireland. Registration number 390566.





--
This is my life,but world of us~~


Re: Hello after Summer: We are back with the SIG Observability Meetings!

Bartłomiej Płotka
 

> Factual correction: 

😱

Kind Regards,
Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 12:59, Michael Wang <xdragon007@...> wrote:
Yeah, great. Thanks.

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 7:31 PM Hausenblas, Michael via lists.cncf.io <hausenbl=amazon.com@...> wrote:
> We can consider recording those, yes (:

> So far we did not.

Factual correction:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLj6h78yzYM2PJkFrpP6IT52KkdBvcvS_9


We should _resume_ recording ;)


Cheers, 
Michael

-- 

Product Developer Advocate, AWS container service team 
https://mhausenblas.info | +353 86 0215164

On 1 September 2020 at 12:14:41, Bartłomiej Płotka (bwplotka@...) wrote:
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links 
> or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.


> We can consider recording those, yes (:

> So far we did not.

> Kind Regards,
> Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


> On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 03:16, Michael Wang > 
> wrote:
> Hi

> Do we have recordings for the meeting?
> It is too late for me to join.

> On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 5:31 AM Bartłomiej Płotka > 
> wrote:
> Hi SIG Observability!

> Hope at least some of us had some relaxing time this summer - I am personally still looking 
> for some PTO time 🌴🌴🌴 (:

> Just a short reminder: We are back with the SIG Observability meetings! The first one 
> is tomorrow. Feel free to add items to our agenda:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_QoF-njScSuGFI3Ge5zu-G8SbL6scQ8AzT1hq57bRoQ/edit#heading=h.ftdhh2fhj4fa 

> See Ya!

> Kind Regards,
> Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


> --
> This is my life,but world of us~~

>

Amazon Data Services Ireland Limited registered office: One Burlington Plaza, Burlington Road, Dublin 4, Ireland. Registered in Ireland. Registration number 390566.





--
This is my life,but world of us~~


Re: Hello after Summer: We are back with the SIG Observability Meetings!

Michael Wang <xdragon007@...>
 

Yeah, great. Thanks.


On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 7:31 PM Hausenblas, Michael via lists.cncf.io <hausenbl=amazon.com@...> wrote:
> We can consider recording those, yes (:

> So far we did not.

Factual correction:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLj6h78yzYM2PJkFrpP6IT52KkdBvcvS_9


We should _resume_ recording ;)


Cheers, 
Michael

-- 

Product Developer Advocate, AWS container service team 
https://mhausenblas.info | +353 86 0215164

On 1 September 2020 at 12:14:41, Bartłomiej Płotka (bwplotka@...) wrote:
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links 
> or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.


> We can consider recording those, yes (:

> So far we did not.

> Kind Regards,
> Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


> On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 03:16, Michael Wang > 
> wrote:
> Hi

> Do we have recordings for the meeting?
> It is too late for me to join.

> On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 5:31 AM Bartłomiej Płotka > 
> wrote:
> Hi SIG Observability!

> Hope at least some of us had some relaxing time this summer - I am personally still looking 
> for some PTO time 🌴🌴🌴 (:

> Just a short reminder: We are back with the SIG Observability meetings! The first one 
> is tomorrow. Feel free to add items to our agenda:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_QoF-njScSuGFI3Ge5zu-G8SbL6scQ8AzT1hq57bRoQ/edit#heading=h.ftdhh2fhj4fa 

> See Ya!

> Kind Regards,
> Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


> --
> This is my life,but world of us~~

>

Amazon Data Services Ireland Limited registered office: One Burlington Plaza, Burlington Road, Dublin 4, Ireland. Registered in Ireland. Registration number 390566.





--
This is my life,but world of us~~


Re: Hello after Summer: We are back with the SIG Observability Meetings!

Hausenblas, Michael
 

We can consider recording those, yes (:
 
So far we did not.
Factual correction:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLj6h78yzYM2PJkFrpP6IT52KkdBvcvS_9


We should _resume_ recording ;)


Cheers,
Michael

--

Product Developer Advocate, AWS container service team
https://mhausenblas.info | +353 86 0215164

On 1 September 2020 at 12:14:41, Bartłomiej Płotka (bwplotka@...) wrote:
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links
or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.


We can consider recording those, yes (:

So far we did not.

Kind Regards,
Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 03:16, Michael Wang >
wrote:
Hi

Do we have recordings for the meeting?
It is too late for me to join.

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 5:31 AM Bartłomiej Płotka >
wrote:
Hi SIG Observability!

Hope at least some of us had some relaxing time this summer - I am personally still looking
for some PTO time 🌴🌴🌴 (:

Just a short reminder: We are back with the SIG Observability meetings! The first one
is tomorrow. Feel free to add items to our agenda:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_QoF-njScSuGFI3Ge5zu-G8SbL6scQ8AzT1hq57bRoQ/edit#heading=h.ftdhh2fhj4fa

See Ya!

Kind Regards,
Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


--
This is my life,but world of us~~


Amazon Data Services Ireland Limited registered office: One Burlington Plaza, Burlington Road, Dublin 4, Ireland. Registered in Ireland. Registration number 390566.


Re: Hello after Summer: We are back with the SIG Observability Meetings!

Bartłomiej Płotka
 

We can consider recording those, yes (:

So far we did not.

Kind Regards,
Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)


On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 03:16, Michael Wang <xdragon007@...> wrote:
Hi

Do we have recordings for the meeting?
It is too late for me to join.

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 5:31 AM Bartłomiej Płotka <bwplotka@...> wrote:
Hi SIG Observability!

Hope at least some of us had some relaxing time this summer - I am personally still looking for some PTO time 🌴🌴🌴 (: 

Just a short reminder: We are back with the SIG Observability meetings! The first one is tomorrow. Feel free to add items to our agenda:

See Ya!

Kind Regards,
Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)



--
This is my life,but world of us~~


Re: Hello after Summer: We are back with the SIG Observability Meetings!

Michael Wang <xdragon007@...>
 

Hi

Do we have recordings for the meeting?
It is too late for me to join.

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 5:31 AM Bartłomiej Płotka <bwplotka@...> wrote:
Hi SIG Observability!

Hope at least some of us had some relaxing time this summer - I am personally still looking for some PTO time 🌴🌴🌴 (: 

Just a short reminder: We are back with the SIG Observability meetings! The first one is tomorrow. Feel free to add items to our agenda:

See Ya!

Kind Regards,
Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)



--
This is my life,but world of us~~


Hello after Summer: We are back with the SIG Observability Meetings!

Bartłomiej Płotka
 

Hi SIG Observability!

Hope at least some of us had some relaxing time this summer - I am personally still looking for some PTO time 🌴🌴🌴 (: 

Just a short reminder: We are back with the SIG Observability meetings! The first one is tomorrow. Feel free to add items to our agenda:

See Ya!

Kind Regards,
Bartek Płotka (@bwplotka)

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